Subs. Had to see it for myself.

[Col_NASTY]

Disclaimer, I have Subs to include much sought after premiums that I got from crates.  I do not play the at all. Not my thing.

I saw a Vid a while back that showed that subs, in almost every way, are MUCH Tankier than DDs.

 I know what I see all the time but needed to experience it this way for myself.

I got lucky doing a mission and got one all by itself in my Harugumo.

Luckily it was coop and all the time it took to TRY to kill that thing didn't get me focused to dust in 15 seconds like it does in Randoms.

This is just what happened.

I'll just leave this right here.

Didn't kill it btw. POINT BLANK.

[ArIskandir]

Nasty, it isn't the size of the gun what matters, but how you use it 😜 ... pumping "lead" like crazy will not achieve the desired objective just by sheer number of hits

[Andrewbassg]

1 hour ago, Col_NASTY said:

Disclaimer, I have Subs to include much sought after premiums that I got from crates.  I do not play the at all. Not my thing.

I saw a Vid a while back that showed that subs, in almost every way, are MUCH Tankier than DDs.

 I know what I see all the time but needed to experience it this way for myself.

I got lucky doing a mission and got one all by itself in my Harugumo.

Luckily it was coop and all the time it took to TRY to kill that thing didn't get me focused to dust in 15 seconds like it does in Randoms.

This is just what happened.

I'll just leave this right here.

Didn't kill it btw. POINT BLANK.

Working as intended comrade. That's what fun and engaging means. Wat, U not like to press leftmousebyutton ( aka known as G) a .......LOT ? 

56 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Nasty, it isn't the size of the gun what matters, but how you use it 😜 ... pumping "lead" like crazy will not achieve the desired objective just by sheer number of hits

Edited October 25, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[ArIskandir]

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Working as intended comrade. That's what fun and engaging means. Wat, U not like to press leftmousebyutton a LOT ( aka known as G)? 

I mean, you need to know the right moment and place to press that G key to achieve the desired effect...

[Verytis]

Harugumo HE shells are individually weak.

How many of those shells actually hit the sub, as opposed to splashing for reduced dmg?

[Guest]

57 shell hits on a submarine with zero flooding...yeah..that makes sense 

DD: I hit you with 57 rounds

Sub: I will just submerge and the shell holes will magically heal over

[pepe_trueno]

Just now, Kalishnikat said:

57 shell hits on a submarine with zero flooding...yeah..that makes sense 

DD: I hit you with 57 rounds

Sub: I will just submerge and the shell holes will magically heal over

WG mechanics in a nutshell 

 

[BOBTHEBALL]

It is well known subs are for players who are incredibly bad at DDs. They get rid of the aspect were DDs are either killed or heavily smashed when positioned badly. Also their torps are easy to hit well because they home in on targets.

[Jakob Knight]

5 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

It is well known subs are for players who are incredibly bad at DDs. They get rid of the aspect were DDs are either killed or heavily smashed when positioned badly. Also their torps are easy to hit well because they home in on targets.

 

I don't know about that.  I'm pretty good with DDs, but my Sub performance is below par.  I'm trying to improve that, but the two do have differences in how they have to be played that will cost you if you don't learn the ship type.

 

[Verblonde]

15 hours ago, Col_NASTY said:

This is just what happened.

Usual disclaimer: I despise the current submarine implementation; they should not be in the game in their present form.

That out of the way, it might be worth making a couple of observations (in no particular order):

• Although it's counterintuitive, it's worth noting that in WG's world, DDs are not the primary sub-hunters (apart from cruisers cursed with normal depth-charges, submarines are arguably the worst ASW platform in the game). One has to play accordingly.
• Even in Coop, you have to practically run the buggers over to do anything useful with your depth charges; if you can (and this generally isn't practical against real people with half a brain), there is scope to wreak them.
• As for gunfire against submarines, it can work - assuming you can shoot straight - but it's worth familiarising yourself with where you need to be shooting. Yuro's submarine guide has a good explanation.

If you are finding submarines are unpleasant to deal with, it's worth watching Yuro's guide end-to-end:

Sadly, I'd also suggest playing the things (if you already have them) in Coop. Although it perhaps isn't the most representative, it'll give you a useful sense of what they can do, without ruining anyone else's game.

[HogHammer]

10 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I'd also suggest playing the things (if you already have them) in Coop. Although it perhaps isn't the most representative, it'll give you a useful sense of what they can do, without ruining anyone else's game.

This, to me, applies to any ship.  In other words, know your enemy.  

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

57 shell hits on a submarine with zero flooding...yeah..that makes sense 

DD: I hit you with 57 rounds

Sub: I will just submerge and the shell holes will magically heal over

Working "magically", like every other consumable in this arcade game.  🙂 



 

[Admiral_Karasu]

10 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

It is well known subs are for players who are incredibly bad at DDs. They get rid of the aspect were DDs are either killed or heavily smashed when positioned badly. Also their torps are easy to hit well because they home in on targets.

Cool. That means it makes me indredibly good at DD's.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

5 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Usual disclaimer: I despise the current submarine implementation; they should not be in the game in their present form.

That out of the way, it might be worth making a couple of observations (in no particular order):

• Although it's counterintuitive, it's worth noting that in WG's world, DDs are not the primary sub-hunters (apart from cruisers cursed with normal depth-charges, submarines are arguably the worst ASW platform in the game). One has to play accordingly.
• Even in Coop, you have to practically run the buggers over to do anything useful with your depth charges; if you can (and this generally isn't practical against real people with half a brain), there is scope to wreak them.
• As for gunfire against submarines, it can work - assuming you can shoot straight - but it's worth familiarising yourself with where you need to be shooting. Yuro's submarine guide has a good explanation.

If you are finding submarines are unpleasant to deal with, it's worth watching Yuro's guide end-to-end:

Sadly, I'd also suggest playing the things (if you already have them) in Coop. Although it perhaps isn't the most representative, it'll give you a useful sense of what they can do, without ruining anyone else's game.

 

Actually one of the best guides I seen in a long while. Picked up a lot of new things watching this.

[Col_NASTY]

21 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Nasty, it isn't the size of the gun what matters, but how you use it 😜 ... pumping "lead" like crazy will not achieve the desired objective just by sheer number of hits

Cmon man you know full well if ANY DD could do this,  people would run from this game in 10 seconds.

Just had a game where I was FULL HP in my halland hit a sub with MANY He rounds AND 11 DC hits..  He ran to the border and stuck his bow into it and waited.  He was sliding on that border , surfaced and Shotgunned me POINT BLANK ..DEV STRIKE.

When you see so many subs at higher tiers with 4 and 5 kills then you know.

Make a DD with homing torps and the ability to INSTANTLY hide by diving and pop up and down and the game would dry up over a single weekend.

If you have the nerve to HUNT one all it has to do is POP up and IF you shoot at it DIVE and his team SLAPS you into dust.

That fails and the ping you and send the mass of homing torps into your face.

Meanwhile you hit them with DCs and HE rounds and they just LOL.

My FAVORITE part is when they know they are about to die simply RAM kill you .

Even sometimes THAT doesn't kill them.

I would have more respect for people if they could just admit it. Acting like subs  are balanced is just not honest to me.

I'm not going to go back and forth about it but people know. They gave subs FAR too many tools that makes fighting them above T-8 a death sentence unless you have long range DC planes and someone to spot it.

Make my Kamakazi or Benham capable of submerging and it STILL wouldn't be as easy to play well as a top tier sub.

It's ok to admit it.

 

[Col_NASTY]

6 hours ago, HogHammer said:

This, to me, applies to any ship.  In other words, know your enemy.  

I have them and have played them since testing. I said back then.. Too easy and would park mine. 

As always I say.. Want to know what is ridiculously OP and makes the game broken as far as real play?

Look at what they ( WG) BANs in Competition.

Even WG knows.

KOTS wouldn't have any players if they allowed them but we must.

[Arcus_Aesopi]

21 minutes ago, Col_NASTY said:

I have them and have played them since testing. I said back then.. Too easy and would park mine. 

As always I say.. Want to know what is ridiculously OP and makes the game broken as far as real play?

Look at what they ( WG) BANs in Competition.

Even WG knows.

KOTS wouldn't have any players if they allowed them but we must.

KOTS is my guide for what TT ships to grind to get 🙂

[Musket22]

19 hours ago, Verytis said:

Harugumo HE shells are individually weak.

How many of those shells actually hit the sub, as opposed to splashing for reduced dmg?

and how much of the damage mitigated by the WG (mandated to preserve the sub viability illusion) absorbtion mechanics?

[Gillhunter]

7 hours ago, Verblonde said:

Sadly, I'd also suggest playing the things (if you already have them) in Coop. Although it perhaps isn't the most representative, it'll give you a useful sense of what they can do, without ruining anyone else's game.

Please don't. Just play them in randoms. They are irritating to deal with while you are trying to sink other ships and will sink you, if playing a cruiser or destroyer, if you ignore them.

[Gillhunter]

1 hour ago, Col_NASTY said:

I would have more respect for people if they could just admit it. Acting like subs  are balanced is just not honest to me.

 

This^^^^^^^^^^

[ArIskandir]

3 hours ago, Col_NASTY said:

It's ok to admit it.

I don't have the heart to troll you bro 🙂 ... my comment was full tongue-in-cheek, I was just poking fun at you and having some fun with words and double meaning 😉

The way they are designed, Subs can be both extremely fragile and incredible difficult to dispose... it can be baffling to understand until you play them and happen to go from full HP to sunk in 5 seconds flat, just because you got caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. They are also the most difficult unit to kill in the game... can't hit what you can't find. That's Subs, a manifestation of quantum states of matter.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Col_NASTY said:

Look at what they ( WG) BANs in Competition.

kots = kings of training-room scenario. 
The organizers of kots choose what to allow and what to ban.
They aren't coping with the same risks that people in a random battle face.

[BOBTHEBALL]

11 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

I don't know about that.  I'm pretty good with DDs, but my Sub performance is below par.  I'm trying to improve that, but the two do have differences in how they have to be played that will cost you if you don't learn the ship type.

 

At the end of the day it is also a new class and remember we all need to learn it. I was kind of talking about how for the lower end of the player spectrum and how they can escape when needed. Obviously DDs do some things better still, no doubt about it.

[BOBTHEBALL]

7 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Cool. That means it makes me indredibly good at DD's.

I believe in you 🤣

[Verytis]

5 hours ago, Musket22 said:

and how much of the damage mitigated by the WG (mandated to preserve the sub viability illusion) absorbtion mechanics?

If all the 57 shells were direct pens and got full dmg? You'd expect 22.8k dmg. Roughly double of what the sub actually took, but HE shells do half pen dmg when splashing.

Considering the small profile of a sub, it is more likely it to be splashes than actual saturation. And remember, if you do manage to saturate the sub, you can actually go back to splashing shells, according to Yuro's guide.

 

This "tankiness" also goes both ways for subs. While it can make it harder for DDs to gun it down quickly. The splashing guarantees shell dmg, as opposed to a DD being able to dodge. Eg. A BB can devstrike a surfaced sub because the splash easily makes up for dispersion.