Marceau in Clan Battles

[thornzero]

I am closing in on my last point for 21 on Marceau which I use mostly in CBs recently and getting a little better with this ship although it is a challenge with high detect and no smoke.

I use RPF to help the team. So standard DD 14 points + Fearless Brawler is at 18 points for close in knife fights.

So I will have 3 points left once I get this last point and I am sweating the decision to put it into guns for 2.9 second reload vice 3.1 or shave 14 seconds off torpedoes. 

I originally was intending to put it into guns but the torp reload sounds like a viable option since they take awhile and I do use them even though the range is not ideal.

Perhaps a few opinions would be helpful if you have some time. Thank you.

[Admiral_Karasu]

@thornzero Sorry for late reply but I got what Bob sends as an answer to your question. Here's the build Bob suggests you use, and if you want to change something, it depends on what you want to do with Marceau if I got him right.

[thornzero]

I was kind of wondering why 24 people saw my missive and I didn't hear back. Thank you kindly; @Admiral_Karasu for the response. 

I didn't explain but my clan is a little more forgiving in CB and lets everyone who wants to play a chance to do so. [Plus I started over with a NA account.]

So he's thinking AR for those last three points. Huh. After a lot of reading and studying AR I haven't used it much but it could really be a helpful option here with this build. Everything else is spot on to what I am running. 

No change. I think as soon as I get that last point I'll stick with his suggestion. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

3 hours ago, thornzero said:

I was kind of wondering why 24 people saw my missive and I didn't hear back. Thank you kindly; @Admiral_Karasu for the response. 

I didn't explain but my clan is a little more forgiving in CB and lets everyone who wants to play a chance to do so. [Plus I started over with a NA account.]

So he's thinking AR for those last three points. Huh. After a lot of reading and studying AR I haven't used it much but it could really be a helpful option here with this build. Everything else is spot on to what I am running. 

No change. I think as soon as I get that last point I'll stick with his suggestion. 

I want to apologies for forgetting to send a message. I thought I wrote something up but didn't. The build provided above is very good and in most cases AR is the best 3p skill out there, on basically any and all ships out there.

[thornzero]

No apology necessary @BOBTHEBALL. I am grateful for the help.

There is some dissenting opinions on AR. Sometimes I do not use it but maybe I should more. I think the value increases with tier. Some guys indicate the bonus is negligible. This might not be the case in high tiers; which I have lower experience with. Typically, I DD main and then spend some time in BB to relax. So when I DD I tend to pick RPF early after 1o points. 

If we do well at CB this week I'll be able to fully spec her and we'll see what happens. 

Cheers

[thornzero]

So we won 9 out of 1o CB's last night. This netted me a boat load of cexp and with some resourcefulness at the end of the night, clicked on the 21 point.

It was my personally best night in the past couple weeks. Survive / Spot / Capture / Kill. It's the killing I struggle with.

So my test this morning is how much benefit. .6 seconds on reload of main guns [before FB kicks in] and 27 seconds on torps which is awesome at very low health. 

So tonight we shall see. I think a few knife fights I was close to winning might be achievable soon. 

[yss_turtleship]

 

On 1/8/2025 at 1:41 PM, Admiral_Karasu said:

@thornzero Sorry for late reply but I got what Bob sends as an answer to your question. Here's the build Bob suggests you use, and if you want to change something, it depends on what you want to do with Marceau if I got him right.

I'm not showing the image so let's see if this helps. It should be the same image.


This is exactly how I have my commander for the Marceau.

Here are my modules and upgrades. I run range mod but I've also used reload.

[Admiral_Karasu]

4 minutes ago, yss_turtleship said:

I'm not showing the image so let's see if this helps. It should be the same image.


This is exactly how I have my commander for the Marceau.

They are the same.

[thornzero]

I did change to rudder; 3.8 seconds and it is helping with dodging because acceleration was not that important since I'm mostly at speed. I think I will stick with reload for now instead of range but I think that is also useful.

[Kawaii_shirasu_azusa]

19 hours ago, thornzero said:

I did change to rudder; 3.8 seconds and it is helping with dodging because acceleration was not that important since I'm mostly at speed. I think I will stick with reload for now instead of range but I think that is also useful.

In fact, high speed means high thrust-to-weight ratio, which means you can do a quick deceleration/acceleration maneuver to dodge attacks from those who really learn to attack French ships, but you may also get stuck in a mindset and get hit when you decelerate. Anyway, have fun

[thornzero]

CBs is tough. I do have some good matches here and there and some decent-er knife fights but I've got a ways to go experience-wise. Nonetheless, the help here is much appreciated.

[torino2dc]

On 1/12/2025 at 7:33 PM, thornzero said:

CBs is tough. I do have some good matches here and there and some decent-er knife fights but I've got a ways to go experience-wise. Nonetheless, the help here is much appreciated.

Late to the party, but some perhaps a different perspective is useful. 

For high DPM ships like Marceau, adding slightly more DPM is rarely useful because your applied DPM (i.e. the damage that arrives at your target) is bottlenecked by other factors. For example, inconsistent aim, inability to click fast enough in rhythm, poor shell velocity, enemy dodging -- all these things can make your applied DPM go into the dumpster. At that point, additional investments in reload are throwing away points and slots that could be more useful elsewhere.

On 1/9/2025 at 7:32 PM, thornzero said:

Survive / Spot / Capture / Kill

With this order of priorities (which is totally valid), then maybe consider a build that isn't centered around firepower. 

If you often find yourself having to rush the contest cap in order to secure it before the other team, consider swift in silence. If you want to have more impact as a passive spotter, consider going for a torpedo build. If you find yourself often drawing fire, consider Dazzle. 

[thornzero]

Torino you always have good advice. 

The dpm isn't working out. I am losing more knife fights than winning. I am trying not to get spotted but if I fight with guns there is usually a cr around the corner that can gun me down with impunity.

Capping immediately is not really the clan's priority. Not dying over it at least. So the extra cap can wait a minute or two particularly if we can kill the other DD quicker. I usually go a bit wide and try to spot. I land torpedoes occasionally but consistently missing.  I watch the enemy constantly turning, slowing down, speeding up and I just know they are going to miss.

I think the skill ceiling of CB / Tier X / and the Marceau are above my paygrade. The clan is very patient with me but for how long I do not know.

[SureBridge]

@thornzero The high speed gunboats (Kleber, Marceau and Gdansk) are all difficult to play, and play slightly differently. 

Marceau has terribly floaty guns and massive DPM. Because she uses the US 35 calibre guns, it's hard to hit fast targets more than 6-8 km away, so you can lose gunfights to other DD's (especially if they have cruiser support) at intermediate ranges (8-12km). She excels at burning down cruisers and BB's - especially low velocity shells like the UK and US lines: you can keep at ~12 km and dodge or speed juke to avoid their shells. Avoid Russian, German and Italian cruisers, because they have fast shells and can reliably engage you at longer ranges. It's HARD to run these ships without a 16+ point captain, because you need radio direction finding so that you can point your nose at the DD's that out-spot you (Gdansk can just Radar) and you need engine room protection (because French ships have glass rudders and engines)

Her ability to stealth torpedo is actually a trap - your torps have such a slow reload if you do this they won't be available when you are knife-fighting another DD, which is when you actually need them. 

Some of her best utility is being shot at. If she is on a flank and can keep to ~11+ km, lots of folks on the enemy team will try to hit you. Your job there is to dodge and keep shooting (hitting optional) - as a Marceau / Kleber player, I will often rack up ~2M potential damage games (and survive the game). Every shell fired at you is a shell NOT fired at a team mate!

To get the hang of her guns, I'd recommend setting up a training battle with a bunch of "expert" bots that have their "shoot" option turned off. Use the "Armour resilience test" map, since it has no caps and is open water. Once you are consistently hitting the bots, turn their "brains" down and allow them to shoot you. Feel free to ping me if I'm in game, and I can walk you through some training scenarios.

[yss_turtleship]

On 1/16/2025 at 12:28 PM, thornzero said:

 

I think the skill ceiling of CB / Tier X / and the Marceau are above my paygrade. The clan is very patient with me but for how long I do not know.

We will be as patient as you are willing. We currently only have one CB division and it is designated as casual. The goal is to have fun, increase clan engagement in CB, and promote team work. When we have enough players who want to live the competitive lifestyle, we will create a second division just for that.

I believe that CB is one, if not the best, game modes available. I rarely play any other modes anymore. It doesn't help that work has kept me busy and I can't run some games as often as I used to.

[yss_turtleship]

On 1/16/2025 at 1:31 PM, SureBridge said:

@thornzero The high speed gunboats (Kleber, Marceau and Gdansk) are all difficult to play, and play slightly differently. 

Marceau has terribly floaty guns and massive DPM. Because she uses the US 35 calibre guns, it's hard to hit fast targets more than 6-8 km away, so you can lose gunfights to other DD's (especially if they have cruiser support) at intermediate ranges (8-12km). She excels at burning down cruisers and BB's - especially low velocity shells like the UK and US lines: you can keep at ~12 km and dodge or speed juke to avoid their shells. Avoid Russian, German and Italian cruisers, because they have fast shells and can reliably engage you at longer ranges. It's HARD to run these ships without a 16+ point captain, because you need radio direction finding so that you can point your nose at the DD's that out-spot you (Gdansk can just Radar) and you need engine room protection (because French ships have glass rudders and engines)

Her ability to stealth torpedo is actually a trap - your torps have such a slow reload if you do this they won't be available when you are knife-fighting another DD, which is when you actually need them. 

Some of her best utility is being shot at. If she is on a flank and can keep to ~11+ km, lots of folks on the enemy team will try to hit you. Your job there is to dodge and keep shooting (hitting optional) - as a Marceau / Kleber player, I will often rack up ~2M potential damage games (and survive the game). Every shell fired at you is a shell NOT fired at a team mate!

To get the hang of her guns, I'd recommend setting up a training battle with a bunch of "expert" bots that have their "shoot" option turned off. Use the "Armour resilience test" map, since it has no caps and is open water. Once you are consistently hitting the bots, turn their "brains" down and allow them to shoot you. Feel free to ping me if I'm in game, and I can walk you through some training scenarios.

Listen to @SureBridge, he knows his Marceau. He's played with us often and I find his advice often being very much on point.

I also hold @torino2dc's advice in high regard.