New_Jersey_prpr Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Differences are limited to minor details, the hull is identical. Z57's existence proved again that WG still has business relationship with Lesta, and they decides not to hide it anymore. 1 1
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 4 Posted January 4 The difference being the appearance of the radar dome, on top of the bridge?
Itwastuesday Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Proves nothing. Who knows how many supership models were made back then. Not that I doubt the business relation doesn't exist. 3
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Have a look here: https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/zerstorer1944/index.html 2 1
Nevermore135 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) Both ships are almost certainly based on the same RL 1945 destroyer design, while also drawing inspiration from the shared in-game Z-52. I would be surprised if the two ships weren’t quite similar when it comes to the basic hull form. Edited January 4 by Nevermore135 2
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Are we seriously expecting WG to be perfectly ethical when it comes to the separation...when they play in the grey areas of ethics in so many other parts of their business? Heh. WG and Lesta still talking isn't surprising, if true. 1
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 4 Posted January 4 Just out of curiosity, are both companies sourcing the hull blueprints from the same sources? Or is this a completely fictional ship? 1
MBT808 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) I just wish Z-57 was the tier X not the super ship(not with the 7km hydro of course). The german 128 DD line would work a lot better if the fake version of Z-23 was removed(and restored to the 15cm version as a premium/coal ship or something) and Z-46 and Z-52 were both dropped down a tier. Also its missing its proper AA armament, it should have 3cm MK 303 M44s not the 3cm flak 103/38. Its a small quibble, but if they didn't want to model a single new AA gun, they could've just used the 3.7cm LM 42U instead. As far as what the super ship after Z-57 would've been if that had been the case, honestly, I feel like it could've been basically something like Harugumo. On a separate note, I'm honestly expecting the supership for the 15cm line to essentially be Munchen with Elbings turrets instead. Different AA composition and a quad launcher in place of the 105mm dual purpose mount on each side. Edited January 4 by MBT808 2
Nevermore135 Posted January 4 Posted January 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Just out of curiosity, are both companies sourcing the hull blueprints from the same sources? Or is this a completely fictional ship? The WoWs dev blog states Z-57 represents a Type 1945 destroyer design, the last series of designs by the Kriegsmarine before the end of the war. Lesta very likely based their tier XI on the same design. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_1945_destroyer Edited January 4 by Nevermore135 1 1
torino2dc Posted January 5 Posted January 5 7 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Are we seriously expecting WG to be perfectly ethical when it comes to the separation...when they play in the grey areas of ethics in so many other parts of their business? Heh. WG and Lesta still talking isn't surprising, if true. This has nothing to do with ethics. When WG was still one entity, their ship designers had created a massive stockpile of content that was shelved to be used at a later date. The Z-57/Weddingen is almost certainly one of these products. During the divorce, these assets were shared so that each company could use them how they saw fit. 4
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 5 Posted January 5 10 minutes ago, torino2dc said: This has nothing to do with ethics. When WG was still one entity, their ship designers had created a massive stockpile of content that was shelved to be used at a later date. The Z-57/Weddingen is almost certainly one of these products. During the divorce, these assets were shared so that each company could use them how they saw fit. Plausible. But, are we able to cite a source for this? Or should we simply list it among the possible explanations for the hulls being compared?
Ensign Cthulhu Posted January 5 Posted January 5 11 minutes ago, torino2dc said: This has nothing to do with ethics. When WG was still one entity, their ship designers had created a massive stockpile of content that was shelved to be used at a later date. The Z-57/Weddingen is almost certainly one of these products. During the divorce, these assets were shared so that each company could use them how they saw fit. True. But some people are desperate to paint the picture that strokes the shaft of their own fantasies.
AdmiralThunder Posted January 5 Posted January 5 11 hours ago, New_Jersey_prpr said: Z57's existence proved again that WG still has business relationship with Lesta, and they decides not to hide it anymore. Unless you have documented evidence that shows WG in fact got this from Lesta's art department I think your claim is pretty bold and unsubstantiated. A picture of two similar (not 100% identical) ships is not proof WG is using assets from Lesta. It is just as plausible to say this was an asset that was done before the split and they are just using it now. WG had Yorktown modeled for years (even before the CV rework) and look how long it took them to actually use it. I am not saying it didn't happen but I don't call that rock solid proof as you seem to think. JMHO 2
derf Posted January 5 Posted January 5 45 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: True. But some people are desperate to paint the picture that strokes the shaft of their own fantasies. to repeat the question... 46 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Plausible. But, are we able to cite a source for this? Or should we simply list it among the possible explanations for the hulls being compared?
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 5 Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, derf said: to repeat the question... to repeat the *possible* answers given, thus far ... 1. Nearly identical images of a ship (with the variance being a structure on top of the bridge) are an asserted indication that WG/WOWs and Leesta are somehow communicating and sharing hull designs after their corporate split. (Cue the players feigning shock, dismay, being upset, shouts and vocal uproar, and re-enactments of townspeople marching onto a figurative castle while carrying pitchforks and torches?) 2. Possibly, the hull research was done independently by the split companies and they researched the same source material and faithfully incorporated the blueprints with a minor difference (the afforementioned structure atop the bridge). 3. Research was done before the split. During the split the design research was shared/copied to each of the newly formed companies, per the split agreement. Use of the prior existing research and hull blueprints is allowed per the split agreement. 4. Some new explanation I've not read, yet, in this topic? Again, these are *possible* explanations. They are not yet verified and are merely speculation, to the best of my knowledge, at the time of this writing. 🙂 1
torino2dc Posted January 5 Posted January 5 54 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: But, are we able to cite a source for this? Or should we simply list it among the possible explanations for the hulls being compared? No direct evidence at this moment. However, when we consider: - WG pre-divorce had a practice of stockpiling finished ships. - WG and Lesta have already released a bunch of pre-divorce content post-divorce. - WG post-divorce is suffering from an acute personnel shortage in terms of artists and ship designers - WG has not come up with a single "built from the ground up" original hull since the divorce. ...the most likely explanation is that they had the model left over from before the divorce. ----- The alternative explanation is that WG somehow magically conjured ship designers out of nowhere, and instead of having them work on high value original content like high-tier tech-tree ships or premiums, they had them copy a Lesta design for a T11 that hardly anyone will play and/or pay real money for. As far as nefarious plans go, that's gotta rank among the dumbest I've ever heard of. I think we go with Occam's razor here and accept the simplest explanation as the most likely. 5
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 5 Posted January 5 15 minutes ago, torino2dc said: No direct evidence at this moment. However, when we consider: - WG pre-divorce had a practice of stockpiling finished ships. - WG and Lesta have already released a bunch of pre-divorce content post-divorce. - WG post-divorce is suffering from an acute personnel shortage in terms of artists and ship designers - WG has not come up with a single "built from the ground up" original hull since the divorce. ...the most likely explanation is that they had the model left over from before the divorce. ----- The alternative explanation is that WG somehow magically conjured ship designers out of nowhere, and instead of having them work on high value original content like high-tier tech-tree ships or premiums, they had them copy a Lesta design for a T11 that hardly anyone will play and/or pay real money for. As far as nefarious plans go, that's gotta rank among the dumbest I've ever heard of. I think we go with Occam's razor here and accept the simplest explanation as the most likely. This looks like a job for the .... Too bad they're not available. 🙂 So, yeah. Everything is speculation at this point. 🙂 1 1
Andrewbassg Posted January 5 Posted January 5 (edited) Tbh, I don't see it as a major problem, even if contacts and shares are actively happening. The major problems with Lesta were its contemptuous treatment of the player base, coupled with a false superiority display (actually from a quite obvious inferiority feeling) and its toxic corporate culture, all stemming from Russia's URSS history, culture etc. So.... IF they don't pull the ropes...... i have no qualms. Edited January 5 by Andrewbassg 1
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 5 Posted January 5 Let's look at what the Internet can tell us. First, on March 31 2022, Lesta Studio 'legally ceased to be part of Wargaming'. https://leave-russia.org/wargaming Lesta (Lesta Studio/Lesta Games) is now an independent video game developer, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesta_Studio If you want to look further, the Lesta website is really only functional in Russian, but documentation is available in English. https://developers.lesta.ru/documentation/rules/agreement/?language=en 1
Ocsimano18 Posted January 5 Posted January 5 (edited) I don’t care if Russians work for WG. It seems that noone else is willing to create highly detailed ship models for such a low wage. If you don’t like this, then apply for a WG job in Serbia and start drawing models 24/7. Edited January 5 by Ocsimano18 2 1
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 5 Posted January 5 36 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said: I don’t care if Russians work for WG. It seems that noone else is willing to create highly detailed ship models for such a low wage. If you don’t like this, then apply for a WG job in Serbia and start drawing models 24/7. Don't we sometimes miss the good old days?... 1
Estaca_de_Bares Posted January 5 Posted January 5 21 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: The difference being the appearance of the radar dome, on top of the bridge? Not just the dome but the turrets too: Lesta's are bulkier with longer guns (bigger caliber too, maybe?). Aside from that, other minor differences are the location of the inflatable lifeboats(?) by the side of the superstructure, the angle of the post at the bow (although this could be a matter of perspective) and a couple of bent pipes behind the forward turret in WG's model. As for the question of continued collab or parallel development from pre-split existing resources, it's hard to tell. The comparison shouldn't be done just between the two but also include other KM DDs from both studios, that way what is and what's not new would become more apparent. Salute. 2
Ensign Cthulhu Posted January 5 Posted January 5 10 hours ago, derf said: to repeat the question... It depends on whether your mindset is in the game... or in 1690's-era Salem.
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 5 Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: It depends on whether your mindset is in the game... or in 1690's-era Salem. Why? What happened in Salem then?
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 5 Posted January 5 11 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Why? What happened in Salem then? Salem witch trials American history https://www.britannica.com/event/Salem-witch-trials 1
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