Return of the Venerable Zaō

[Guest]

I had this yonks ago when WoWs was basically about the USN and IJN lines expanding. This heavy cruiser was considered a powerhouse when you finally got her. Time went by, new ship lines appeared to explore, and she was considered rather past her due date. I took a break from this for a few years and having returned heard tell of Zaō finally getting some sort of buffs. So I bought her again and manned her with one of 2 Japanese 21-pt captains that I have, the honourable Yasuhiro Suzuki. So far so good in Operations and Asymmetrical and a romp in Random. Very few other ships in my experience will get so many shells on target at range (increased to 18.8km) in a single broadside... just don't stick around for the reply if you can help it.

I was tempted to try Heavy HE for a captain skill but did not like the increased detectability. Did the usual with Demolition Expert, Adrenaline and Survivability Expert. Lowered detectability to 9.9 kms

Any other Zaō players, or comments/advice?

 

 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Stauffenberg44

[Wolfswetpaws]

15 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Any other Zao players, or comments/advice?

My first Zao experience was in a special "Space Themed" event mode, years ago.
Players could pick from a handful of ships and one of them was Zao with a space camouflage/skin.

The torpedo-launching arcs were like the Aoba.  Which, for me, 'does not spark joy'.
I played her anyway, during the event, because my options were limited.
My Fleet was still small and I hadn't progressed much beyond Tier-7 in the tech-trees, back then.

Later, perhaps by a year or two, I welcomed the Yoshino to my Port.
Compared to the Zao, I much prefer the Yoshino.  
The torpedo launching arcs are more useful (in my opinion), and the main-guns are bigger and offer more potent projectiles.
Both the Zao and the Yoshino require optimal positioning and timely maneuvers to avoid being hit, because their armor schemes aren't the best.

In the year 2024, I welcomed the Zao to my Port.  
After getting the Yoshino, I've not been in a rush to research the Zao.  But, eventually, I did so as a natural progression of my gameplay and because I probably wanted the Snowflake reward.

I've since played the Zao in a handful of games.
She remains "underwhelming", to me.
Bad or terrible?  No. 
More like "average with a side of boring" and the rearward emphasis of her torpedo launching-arcs remains annoying.
The recent buffs announced in the dev-blog were welcome, but weren't "game changers", as far as I could discern.  

Advice?
If one intends to utilize Zao's torpedoes, do so with stealth.
Use Captain's skills and hull-modules to improve the Zao's concealment as much as possible.
Time one's use of the main-guns to coincide with opportunities.
Examples: 
~ Fire just before sailing behind an island, to become undetected and avoid return fire from opposing ships.
~ Borrow smoke-screens if the opportunity arises and friendly ships are spotting opponents.
~ Observe opposing ships and fire upon them when their guns are facing away from you (and cease fire when they begin rotating their turrets towards you).
~ Essentially, be opportunistic and carefully balance your survival with your ship's effectiveness in battle.
~ The Zao isn't a tanky Battleship.  She's more like a plus-sized DD with a citadel.  🙂 

I hope people find this topic helpful, and chime-in with their tips & tricks for sailing the Zao effectively.  🙂 

 

[Itwastuesday]

The Zao is just a worse Yoshino which is a worse Yodo which is a worse Conqueror which is a worse Khabarovsk. 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

My first Zao experience was in a special "Space Themed" event mode, years ago.
Players could pick from a handful of ships and one of them was Zao with a space camouflage/skin.

The torpedo-launching arcs were like the Aoba.  Which, for me, 'does not spark joy'.
I played her anyway, during the event, because my options were limited.
My Fleet was still small and I hadn't progressed much beyond Tier-7 in the tech-trees, back then.

Later, perhaps by a year or two, I welcomed the Yoshino to my Port.
Compared to the Zao, I much prefer the Yoshino.  
The torpedo launching arcs are more useful (in my opinion), and the main-guns are bigger and offer more potent projectiles.
Both the Zao and the Yoshino require optimal positioning and timely maneuvers to avoid being hit, because their armor schemes aren't the best.

In the year 2024, I welcomed the Zao to my Port.  
After getting the Yoshino, I've not been in a rush to research the Zao.  But, eventually, I did so as a natural progression of my gameplay and because I probably wanted the Snowflake reward.

I've since played the Zao in a handful of games.
She remains "underwhelming", to me.
Bad or terrible?  No. 
More like "average with a side of boring" and the rearward emphasis of her torpedo launching-arcs remains annoying.
The recent buffs announced in the dev-blog were welcome, but weren't "game changers", as far as I could discern.  

Advice?
If one intends to utilize Zao's torpedoes, do so with stealth.
Use Captain's skills and hull-modules to improve the Zao's concealment as much as possible.
Time one's use of the main-guns to coincide with opportunities.
Examples: 
~ Fire just before sailing behind an island, to become undetected and avoid return fire from opposing ships.
~ Borrow smoke-screens if the opportunity arises and friendly ships are spotting opponents.
~ Observe opposing ships and fire upon them when their guns are facing away from you (and cease fire when they begin rotating their turrets towards you).
~ Essentially, be opportunistic and carefully balance your survival with your ship's effectiveness in battle.
~ The Zao isn't a tanky Battleship.  She's more like a plus-sized DD with a citadel.  🙂 

I hope people find this topic helpful, and chime-in with their tips & tricks for sailing the Zao effectively.  🙂 

 

Perfect advice. Exactly my play in a recent random.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

The Zao is just a worse Yoshino which is a worse Yodo which is a worse Conqueror which is a worse Khabarovsk. 

And Khaborovsk is a hard-hitting DD. hmmmm

[pew_pew_magoo]

5 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

And Khaborovsk is a hard-hitting DD. hmmmm

Khaba melts BBs

[Itwastuesday]

7 hours ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

And Khaborovsk is a hard-hitting DD. hmmmm

I'm only half joking, these low utility HE spam cruisers are kinda struggling to find a place when everything has been muscling in on their territory. 

Zao has pinpoint DD-level accuracy with railguns, something no other ship has in my recollection. It can slap destroyers pretty hard, not harder than Venezia, Gibraltar or whatever but it's something. It has decent-ish AP, but not the power of Yoshino rounds. And it doesn't have the indestructible troll hull of Yodo. Zao very easily takes catastrophic damage from any random battleship. 

There's buffs coming for it. Torp angle buffs are whatever for me, but I think there was also turret angle buffs and that could be significant. I feel like most of these quad turret cruisers with bad firing angles can be frustrating to play as you have to risk actually dying in one hit for the sin of using your guns. 

[Andrewbassg]

24 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

no other ship has

Prins Van Oranje. That thing is a beast in ops. 6-7K salvos on Dd;s are not uncommon.

[Itwastuesday]

31 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Prins Van Oranje. That thing is a beast in ops. 6-7K salvos on Dd;s are not uncommon.

It may feel that way, but Zao has special dispersion Prinz doesn't and railgun velocity the others with similar accuracy (San Martin, Svea, Colbert and Balansk) don't. And legmod boost it further. Practically it doesn't hit DD's harder than other good DD slappers but the numbers are there. A fun meme skill to take is Outnumbered for even more potential accuracy. 

[Sumseaman]

3 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

I'm only half joking, these low utility HE spam cruisers are kinda struggling to find a place when everything has been muscling in on their territory. 

Zao has pinpoint DD-level accuracy with railguns, something no other ship has in my recollection. It can slap destroyers pretty hard, not harder than Venezia, Gibraltar or whatever but it's something. It has decent-ish AP, but not the power of Yoshino rounds. And it doesn't have the indestructible troll hull of Yodo. Zao very easily takes catastrophic damage from any random battleship. 

There's buffs coming for it. Torp angle buffs are whatever for me, but I think there was also turret angle buffs and that could be significant. I feel like most of these quad turret cruisers with bad firing angles can be frustrating to play as you have to risk actually dying in one hit for the sin of using your guns. 

Let's not forget the Sub Surv that is oh so handy from the back line...

[Itwastuesday]

11 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Let's not forget the Sub Surv that is oh so handy from the back line...

While it would be more useful on other ships, having it is still a boon. 

I don't personally believe any of the IJN cruisers is a backline ship. Better be at roughly middle ranges. Spamming HE from back of the map does absolutely nothing even if a ship is seemingly made for it, which the Zao isn't anyway with mediocre range and good concealment. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

She's about to get her turret and torp angles improved in the next patch, so stick around and see how much better she gets!

[Ramsalot]

10 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Zao has pinpoint DD-level accuracy with railguns, something no other ship has in my recollection. It can slap destroyers pretty hard, not harder than Venezia, Gibraltar or whatever but it's something. It has decent-ish AP, but not the power of Yoshino rounds. And it doesn't have the indestructible troll hull of Yodo. Zao very easily takes catastrophic damage from any random battleship. 

According to stats I have sunk 337 ships on Zao in PVP battles, so I might be familiar with the ship. 

Zao has several things going for it that work in good synergy:

1. It has most accurate guns found on cruiser in entire game.  I am running unique upgrades on both Moskva and Zao, and they are practically identical out to 17km with Zao having couple of meters of more accuracy, nothing to write home about but still.  Zao is THE most accurate cruiser in game with it's upgrade.
2. Shells have decent velocity, which enables you to put that accuracy to good use
3. It has very good detection range (unlike Moskva, Venezia, Stalingrad, etc)
4. It does not rely on quick firing guns, so it does not have to be lit all the time to do it's work.
5. It has good speed and mobility in general to disengage back to stealth mode
6. It is rather narrow target when presenting its bow or stern (while waiting to go dark, not tanking)
7. Zao can both ambush destroyers with HE and broadside targets that have citadels using AP
8. Small perk that was recently added - Submarine Surveillance with range that allows to drop depth charges, along with decent speed and hydro Zao can ruin submarine game if it is stupid enough to get close

So the idea is to get close enough to ambush some ship, unload 12 shells with exceptional accuracy, and disengage/go dark if you got too much attention.

Now to the bad things about Zao:

1. It is squishy, so if you are in bad position, it can't take many hits
2. The torpedoes have horrid launching arcs, which makes them rather situational/area denial perk
3. Turrets are a little on the slow side, especially if using reload module, using Yamamoto with it's improved Grease the Gears skill is recommended
4. Outside of ambushing high priority targets, burning BBs down might have reduced impact on game outcome compared to some of the other cruisers that focus on AP damage and citadels, or bring utility such as radar/long range hydro

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

I'm only half joking, these low utility HE spam cruisers are kinda struggling to find a place when everything has been muscling in on their territory. 

Zao has pinpoint DD-level accuracy with railguns, something no other ship has in my recollection. It can slap destroyers pretty hard, not harder than Venezia, Gibraltar or whatever but it's something. It has decent-ish AP, but not the power of Yoshino rounds. And it doesn't have the indestructible troll hull of Yodo. Zao very easily takes catastrophic damage from any random battleship. 

Yes I thought as much, and these rumours of buffs prompted me to try her out again... that and a certain nostalgia for the ship. It was my first tier X cruiser back in the day. Thanks for that.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Ramsalot said:

According to stats I have sunk 337 ships on Zao in PVP battles, so I might be familiar with the ship. 

Zao has several things going for it that work in good synergy:

[....]

So the idea is to get close enough to ambush some ship, unload 12 shells with exceptional accuracy, and disengage/go dark if you got too much attention.

Now to the bad things about Zao:

[...]

 

Excellent summation thanks for that.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Stauffenberg44

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

She's about to get her turret and torp angles improved in the next patch, so stick around and see how much better she gets!

Excellent news.

[Wulf_Ace]

On 12/29/2024 at 10:20 PM, Itwastuesday said:

The Zao is just a worse Yoshino which is a worse Yodo which is a worse Conqueror which is a worse Khabarovsk. 

Zao might be bad but its much better then empire state building Yoshino