Submarines need to be added to Clan Battles.

[GreatWhite]

Just as the title says. Submarines need to be added to Clan Battles. They are already allowed in Ranked... it's way past due in my opinion. 

[Captain_Rawhide]

omg....NO

[AdmiralThunder]

Subs need to be removed from the game not added to it in more ways

[Guest]

I'll keep this short and simple: AGREE.

Subs are a welcome addition to the complexity of WoWs and sub hate is really getting old. We're here. Get over it. ☺️

Edited December 24, 2024 by Stauffenberg44

[GreatWhite]

1 minute ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

I'll keep this short and simple: AGREE.

Thank you!

[AdmiralThunder]

15 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

I'll keep this short and simple: AGREE.

Subs are a welcome addition to the complexity of WoWs and sub hate is really getting old. We're here. Get over it. ☺️

Yeah, with all due respect, no I won't get over it. Subs do not belong in this game and even WG said that (for YEARS) and they still know it (they only did it because they were running out of surface ships). You will never convince the majority of players that they are good for the game and belong so maybe it isn't us that needs to get over it. 

Any class that requires so many gimmicks and unique traits to be added to the game shows it does not belong. Subs suck and ruin the game for the vast majority that have to play against them. They bring nothing positive to the game.

So if you like them great but don't call out others who don't and voice that opinion.

Edited December 24, 2024 by AdmiralThunder

[Frostbow]

20 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Subs need to be removed from the game not added to it in more ways

Too late for that. You know, this aversion to submarines mirror the aversion to CVs. But there is no going back; submarines are here to stay. And what is a game about warships if we exclude one of the most effective weapons of war? 

[Frostbow]

10 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Subs do not belong in this game

They do. Or you can play a different game without submarines.

[Frostbow]

11 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

You will never convince the majority of players that they are good for the game and belong so maybe it isn't us that needs to get over it. 

I do not like the threat of submarines and aircraft to my surface ships. But I have gotten over it. No one is convincing anyone; we are all customers, and the business has long made the decision to include submarines in the game. 

[Frostbow]

13 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Any class that requires so many gimmicks and unique traits to be added to the game shows it does not belong.

If we are being dispassionately honest here, all classes in the game have gimmicks and unique traits, some of them are subtle enough not to be immediately noticeable, but they are there. Submarines, just like CVs, while they are hated by some, belong in the game. It is just a matter of getting good. Either you adapt quick or you stick to kiddie mode, e.g., Co-op. 

[Frostbow]

19 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

maybe it isn't us that needs to get over it. 

Search your feelings. If you can spend thousands of dollars in a game that feature submarines that you hate with a passion, maybe it is time to have some introspection about the now and the future.

 

[Frostbow]

22 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Subs suck and ruin the game for the vast majority

Well, the vast majority also ruin the game for submarine drivers. It has never been a one-way street. 

Some examples:

 

 

 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yeah, with all due respect, no I won't get over it. Subs do not belong in this game and even WG said that (for YEARS) and they still know it (they only did it because they were running out of surface ships). You will never convince the majority of players that they are good for the game and belong so maybe it isn't us that needs to get over it. 

Any class that requires so many gimmicks and unique traits to be added to the game shows it does not belong. Subs suck and ruin the game for the vast majority that have to play against them. They bring nothing positive to the game.

So if you like them great but don't call out others who don't and voice that opinion.

Like every other ship class does not partake in "gimmicks and unique traits"?? It's the modus operandi for the Devs in new ship lines or haven't you noticed? I remember yonks ago people ranting on about how CV's "do not belong in the game"--as I said, it gets old. It's a new level of complexity and granted, needing refinement--as with all other new innovations the WoWs has brought in--this is part of the evolution. "Subs suck" is personal bias and I doubt the "vast majority" share your views. So again, get over it, they are here to stay. If a long term BB player in this can make the transition so can you! 😉

I would venture into the psychology of 'sub hate' but the data so far is inconclusive. I venture to say it is misplaced. Sub torp hits, especially after the shotgun changes, are relatively minor. But not to those with thin skins it seems.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Stauffenberg44

[Sumseaman]

9 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Like every other ship class does not partake in "gimmicks and unique traits"?? It's the modus operandi for the Devs in new ship lines or haven't you noticed? I remember yonks ago people ranting on about how CV's "do not belong in the game"--as I said, it gets old. It's a new level of complexity and granted, needing refinement--as with all other new innovations the WoWs has brought in--this is part of the evolution. "Subs suck"is personal bias and I doubt the "vast majority" share your views. So again, get over it, they are here to stay. If a long term BB player in this can make the transition so can you! 😉

I would venture into the psychology of 'sub hate' but the data so far is inconclusive. I venture to say it is misplaced. Sub torp hits, especially after the shotgun changes, are relatively minor. But not to those with thin skins it seems.

Indeed. You'd think the anti-sub community would be placated with the torp arming and extra ASW. I guess they really don't want to allow carriers or subs now touching them in their special place...

I hope subs are included in all modes. They really aren't that frightening. When Archerfish comes down in steel I plan to get it but all I expect to be able to do with it is sneak up on a BB, reach around, stroke its propeller shaft up and down once then sail away with speed boost giggling hysterically.

Edited December 24, 2024 by Sumseaman

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sumseaman said:

Indeed. You'd think the anti-sub community would be placated with the torp arming and extra ASW. I guess they really don't want to allow carriers or subs now touching them in their special place...

I am really rather surprised at the virulence in the responses. I mean, I have felt the same frustration and pissed-offedness in a BB with DDs and CAs laying out smoke and shelling you with HE, or the same behind an island enfilading you with a jetstream of HE... but really it's just a new wrinkle on the paper-rock-scissor equation of naval combat in WoWs.

These people need to get a sub and try it out for 20 battles and see how hard it is. That's the challenge that brings us back. If it was easy they would really be whining!

It's not.

[Sumseaman]

5 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

These people need to get a sub and try it out for 20 battles and see how hard it is. That's the challenge that brings us back. If it was easy they would really be whining!

It's not.

Oh yeah it isn't easy. Subs can also be very dependent on their team when engaging other little subs. If the reds have good BBs in range and you don't, the second you ping or get spotted, you die before your torps even hit the other. That or it escapes leaving you to limp to the backline, only for them to cry that you're no longer spotting...

Edited December 24, 2024 by Sumseaman

[Verblonde]

10 hours ago, GreatWhite said:

Submarines need to be added to Clan Battles.

WG will probably add them eventually, at which point I will no longer be participating in that mode. Their choice, and my choice.

Edited December 24, 2024 by HogHammer
Descriptive language edit

[Aethervox]

10 hours ago, GreatWhite said:

Submarines need to be added to Clan Battles.

ROFL.  🤣  C'mon Wedgie, stuff them there where the Sun doesn't shine.  Give it to the Clans - you've given it to everyone else.

Stir up the sediment in the bottom of the Wedgie fish tank. 

Edited December 24, 2024 by HogHammer
Descriptive language edit

[TimurGlazkov]

Maybe, just maybe, the vast majority attack subs at their first chance because subs are diffiicult to spot and corner (not becaus they're broken or anything, they aren't anymore). Just like DDs, which are hard to spot, hard to corner, and are impactful. People hunt DDs all the tiime, ask the torpboats, there's plenty of time they've been ran to the edge of the map.

17 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

Some examples:

I expected the examples to be multple people ganging on SS (whiich would be understandably frustrating), but it's just one guy: in a relatively safe situation, with no one else to shoot at, with the enemy sub out of position and no support. Do you want them to see a free kill and walk away? If it was a red DD in that situation, it would have been anniihilated quickly too.

26 minutes ago, Frostbow said:

ll classes in the game have gimmicks and unique traits, some of them are subtle enough not to be immediately noticeable

Yeah, CVs and SSs are allowed to have gimmicks. The 3 main classes all have their own bad apples that are reall unfair to play against (hence they're often restricted in clan battles). But the issue is carriers play a different game (not to mention being very bloody annoying and ignore spotting) while SS lacks properly designed in-class counter (we have all sort of DDs and cruisers but for some reasons sub-to-sub combat is like that, it makes dealing with red subs frustrating for the rest of the classes, as it's hard to cooperate with green subs, and green SSs themselves are limited in the way they can outplay red SSs).

It's a toxic arrangement and it's understandable that such high stake environment like clan battles and tournaments don't feature CVs and SSs. Just because they're part of the game, doesn't mean they're ready for competitive modes (no, Ranked aren't, as long as people can spam game to get to Gold)

[Guest]

OK.

But what exactly gets you feeling that way about subs and their torps, as opposed to DDs and CAs hidden in smoke, hammering you or behind an island, unable to hit back? Or a 15 torp broadside from a Shima carefully kept out of spotting range? Why do subs bother you more?

I'm curious about the difference for you.

Edited December 24, 2024 by HogHammer
Descriptive language edit/deletion

[Verblonde]

4 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Why do subs bother you more?

Hasn't all this been done to death on the old NA forum already? It certainly was on EU.

Whilst I could write several pages on why submarines in their present form are an utterly pernicious addition to the game, I'm a) too lazy, and b) reasonably good-humoured this evening, and don't want to spoil it.

The TL;DR is that the existing four classes in the game had - more or less - a sensible balance between them (some might argue about CVs, especially since the re-work, but I can live with them); submarines buggered that up, and - for me - made PvP modes with them in intolerable, with Ranked being an exception as enough games seem not to feature submarines.

[Frostbow]

19 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

These people need to get a sub and try it out for 20 battles and see how hard it is.

Some of them say they hate submarines, but: they do not play submarines, nor they play Random Battles, and if they do, they just stick at Tier V where they can pad their PVP win rates because they play during off hours where the match maker will use bots to complete teams.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Whilst I could write several pages on why submarines in their present form are an utterly pernicious addition to the game, I'm a) too lazy, and b) reasonably good-humoured this evening, and don't want to spoil it.

OK. I'm not on some sort of sub crusade with this but I would have been interested in a fuller exposition of your thoughts on this. Anon mayhaps.

 

"Utterly pernicious" is low praise indeed. In my average sub game I am happy to be a middling contributor, certainly not a game-changer or carrier. Japanese or Italian cruisers I have to avoid like the plague as they have the sub detection consumable. Really, it's not easy out here as a submersible. I don't expect sympathy, just some sense of balance. lol

[TimurGlazkov]

22 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

OK.

But what exactly gets you feeling that way about subs and their torps, as opposed to DDs and CAs hidden in smoke, hammering you or behind an island, unable to hit back? Or a 15 torp broadside from a Shima carefully kept out of spotting range? Why do subs bother you more?

I'm curious about the difference for you.

Personally, the fact that hydro's detection range at depth doesn't scale and for some reason capped at 2km no matter the surface range. Against other classes, detecting them (especially through terrain) with hydro feels like reward for good positioning, especially as ships with longer hydro range usually suffer from trade off in other stats. So it feels like I'm being cheated out when my 6km hydro (that I sacrificed more captain skills and modules to get up to 3 mins duration) is as impotent as the UK short hydro that goes 3 mins by default but spot at 2km anyway.

Another thing I don't like is pinging was added with no sort of rework to DCP. Since years ago we're already dealing with DDs and secondary brawlers with insane fire-per-minute output, together with CVs and torps, damage control is already so taxed. Adding SS to the mix, just pinging alone with no torps and no wonder everyone likes to "return the favour" with waves of airstrikes.

Last but not least, enemies can be detected by submarines without warning through hydrophone. They could have implemented a white warning like radio location, but chose not to. I don't want to argue if subs should have hydrophone or not, but in this game if you are somehow located, you need to be informed.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, GreatWhite said:

Just as the title says. Submarines need to be added to Clan Battles. They are already allowed in Ranked... it's way past due in my opinion. 

I agree.  🙂