Is Forrest Sherman well differentiated from Vampire II in terms of playstyle?

[Tricericon]

I've snowflaked past the point where I can get my next coal ship. I'm considering Sherman, but I be getting Vampire in late January (I have the FXP to do a double reset and Vamp is locked in as the last interesting RB ship from my perspective).

At a high level they appear to be quite similar:

- High DPM
- 5 km Hydro
- Smoke
- Limited torpedoes
- Relatively slow

Obviously, there are some differences. Sherman has SAP, the torpedoes are limited in different ways, Vampire isn't as immobile (speed boost, smoke crawls), Sherman has better AA...

But, is the playstyle different enough between the two to warrant owning both?

[Montrala]

Vamp II can be good at cap contesting and DD hunting, while FS is more a BB/cruiser farmer. Obviously FS can delete DDs as well, but not dedicated hunter.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

The difference is that Vamp 2's torpedoes are very much more flexible than Forrest's, and that her AP is actually capable of citadelling cruisers such as Neptune, Minotaur and Edgar if you find yourself having their broadside. Sherman can't do that at all. 

Sherman's torps are long-range speculative weapons and very close-range F-you desperation tools if a wounded BB or cruiser tries to push your smoke. Vamp 2's are more general-use.

[Verblonde]

I've got both of them (on EU), and they're wildly different IMO. Besides what @Ensign Cthulhu says, Vampire is a lot sneakier (5.8 km, versus Sherman's 6.5 km) which makes her a far more practical proposition for use as a 'proper' DD. The creeping smoke/hydro trick can be pretty powerful, if the opposition is silly enough to let you use it (hydro alone is very effective though).

Sherman can put out a terrifying volume of fire, but her torps are pretty unhelpful, and she's too cumbersome for the sort of aggressive plays that Vampire can make.

Of course, it comes down to the sort of play style you get on with, so YMMV...

 

[I_cant_Swim_]

6 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Sherman can put out a terrifying volume of fire, but her torps are pretty unhelpful

I have the Sherman, and this is very true. Also, reading the comparisons above now makes me quite interested in the Vampire II, so thanks for the thread.

[Itwastuesday]

As pointed out, Vamp 2 is more of a DD hunter/cap contester, Sherman a farmer. Vamp 2 is in the top 10 TXDD winrate wise atm, Sherman bottom 3, often the last, doing the least spotting and barely more damage than frickin' Delny.

I hate Sherman. Hate having it on my team and hate playing it. It's purpose in life is to lose the early vision game by being slow, making the big game impact of making a random Kurfurst make an U-turn and spamming for intelligence data. 

Unless you're a master at smokefarming destroyers, I would suggest another coal ship. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

6 hours ago, Tricericon said:

I've snowflaked past the point where I can get my next coal ship. I'm considering Sherman, but I be getting Vampire in late January (I have the FXP to do a double reset and Vamp is locked in as the last interesting RB ship from my perspective).

At a high level they appear to be quite similar:

- High DPM
- 5 km Hydro
- Smoke
- Limited torpedoes
- Relatively slow

Obviously, there are some differences. Sherman has SAP, the torpedoes are limited in different ways, Vampire isn't as immobile (speed boost, smoke crawls), Sherman has better AA...

But, is the playstyle different enough between the two to warrant owning both?

I would say yes! If not for my reasons below, then for the fact that they are both extremely powerful and fun to play.

 

Youre not wrong. On paper they look almost like sisterships in character. Both are big Bullies that can get both enemy DDs, cruisers and BBs to tuck tail and head for the hills (IF played right). imho the biggest difference in the 2 is that you should build Shermans as a long range (15-16 km) farmer. This will make sure you can play it both close up but also in some situations at long range almost like a small light cruiser.

Both are great at zoning out enemy DDs from caps, Vampire with crawling smoke and Sherman with long active smoke screen, you just need to make sure enemy team doesn't have radars or their own long range hydro in the cap.

Vampire excels at starting fires on fires on fires, if im not mistaken it has the best fire chance of any DD in the game and also one of the best HE DPM. It can also single fire torps in a conga-line so any BB trying to push youre smoke will get nuked with all torps on target.

Shermans torps are just a trolly gimmick, you spam them on cooldown when you happen to face the enemy. That said I had some really funny torp hits on targets I didn't even knew was there. They are also pretty useless in smokes since you want to sit aft towards the enemy when farming from smokes and then the torps are aimed the wrong way. Sherman is also a potent fire starter and DPM from HELL .... Im serious from HELL! And using Halsey captain (Which you WILL) getting a Confederate, which isn't hard on a ship with this DPM makes youre guns a MiniGun from HELL! You shoot SAP at anything broadside and at all DDs and they just melt.

Vampire has broken/OP conceal considering its strength so its easy peasy lemon squeezy to just push into caps, Sherman has worse conceal but can still push into caps while using nearby islands as cover for youre approach.

 

I know streamer TRENLASS has a lot of Vampire videos on his YT channel since its one of his favorite DDs and I think FLAMU has some Sherman videos where he shits on the entire enemy team pretty much.

Edited December 11, 2024 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Tricericon]

9 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

Vamp 2 is in the top 10 TXDD winrate wise atm, Sherman bottom 3, often the last, doing the least spotting and barely more damage than frickin' Delny.

Oof. Where can I find this data?

[Nevermore135]

9 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

It's purpose in life is to lose the early vision game by being slow, making the big game impact of making a random Kurfurst make an U-turn and spamming for intelligence data. 

Unless you're a master at smokefarming destroyers, I would suggest another coal ship. 

I would say it has another very important purpose as well: being the best value for effectively converting coal into doubloons during trade-in events.

I’ve “acquired” Forrest Sherman multiple times and immediately cashed it in for a tier VIII (free) or IX premium (<2k dubs) during those events.

[Itwastuesday]

2 hours ago, Tricericon said:

Oof. Where can I find this data?

tomato.gg

The bottom 5 crowd :

 

Top 7 where vampire sits : 

 

EDIT : Here's a ship review of the Sherman, with gameplay. I forget what it says, but I tend to agree with the player. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Itwastuesday