Calling all foodies – Need pie opinions ​ 🥧

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

My wife and I are having debates over the way certain foods should be when it is serve. For example I believe that spaghetti sauce should be a thick sauce where a spoon stands in the sauce. She believes the spaghetti sauce should almost be soup like. Recently, we had a debate on pies that we had for Thanksgiving. My wife believes a pie crust should be crumbly, where I said a pie crust should be strong enough to grab the pie slice in your hand with no problems. Obviously both of us disagree on how the pie crust should be. I just wonder what your opinions on what a pie crust should be in its strength and if your spouse or loved one has the same or different opinion of your ideal pies. 🥧

[HogHammer]

7 minutes ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

My wife believes a pie crust should be crumbly, where I said a pie crust should be strong enough to grab the pie slice in your hand with no problems.

I have to side with your better half. The only pie I want to hold is pizza. Now for spaghetti sauce: not thick like masonry cement, but definitely not soup-like.

[clammboy]

I have to side with your wife on the sauce if a spoon can stand up in it you have done something seriosly wrong. It should be just thick enough to stick to and coat the pasta. I am with you about the pie crust I like it a little firm. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

My wife and I are having debates over the way certain foods should be when it is serve. For example I believe that spaghetti sauce should be a thick sauce where a spoon stands in the sauce. She believes the spaghetti sauce should almost be soup like. Recently, we had a debate on pies that we had for Thanksgiving. My wife believes a pie crust should be crumbly, where I said a pie crust should be strong enough to grab the pie slice in your hand with no problems. Obviously both of us disagree on how the pie crust should be. I just wonder what your opinions on what a pie crust should be in its strength and if your spouse or loved one has the same or different opinion of your ideal pies. 🥧

I've had pies with crumbly crusts and pies with crusts that resist being cut (at the outer edge of the pie or slice-of-pie).
Whichever the texture, the crust should not be as strong as titanium.  A fork or spoon should be able to cut or break the crust, without sending fragments flying into the next room or risking personal injury from using too much force.  🙂 

Spaghetti sauce, as @clammboy eloquently stated, should be thick enough to coat the meatballs and pasta without dripping-off.  
The fork or spoon standing-up in the sauce indicates the sauce is too thick.  It is "paste" at that point, or possibly a weird variation of cake-frosting?  😉 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

My wife and I are having debates over the way certain foods should be when it is serve. For example I believe that spaghetti sauce should be a thick sauce where a spoon stands in the sauce. She believes the spaghetti sauce should almost be soup like. Recently, we had a debate on pies that we had for Thanksgiving. My wife believes a pie crust should be crumbly, where I said a pie crust should be strong enough to grab the pie slice in your hand with no problems. Obviously both of us disagree on how the pie crust should be. I just wonder what your opinions on what a pie crust should be in its strength and if your spouse or loved one has the same or different opinion of your ideal pies. 🥧

Ah, the classic discussion.  My wife's family and my family immigrated from several places well before the civil war.  But, the Italian side came from two different regions in Italy !   One made sauce like soup and the other made sauce that space ships could use as hull cement....  So, it depends on what the intent of the pasta is:  a meal or an opening soup....  I make the M1 tank anti-radiation paste that takes a full day to make and she, creates just the opposite with flavors to accent and enhance the pasta....  We have had both receipts requested and variations of both are being used in several places we visit.  (It's fun cooking with friends on face time !)

Pie crust has to compliment the filling....    A shoofly pie and a traditional apple pie simply aren't the same.  It's like Cheesecake crusts.....  I like both, especially when the Amish cook book (since I grew up among the Amish (and, all of the other low German religions)) gets yanked out and the wife gets out of control.  I make Cheesecake when I want to do something stupid....

And, let's not get started on Fall and Winter breads.... Kuchen, when all of my Mon's close friends would make about 30 loves for Christmas (over two complete days !) and Irish potato breads wrapped in Bourbon/Whiskey/Drambuie/et al...soaked cheescloths and left to sit for two or three days in a cold oven..... 

Yes, husbands and wives often are apples and oranges in the kitchen !  And, the in-laws are harsh critics !!!!

Edited November 30, 2024 by Asym

[Snargfargle]

This is my family's traditional spaghetti sauce. I'd like to say that it's an old family recipe passed down by my German ancestors but it probably came from the back of a box of spaghetti.

1 onion minced
1 bell pepper minced
1 clove garlic minced (or one teaspoon garlic powder)
1 can tomato soup
1 can tomato sauce
1 pound hamburger (de-glaze with a dash of apple-cider vinegar)
1 teaspoon oregano, cumin, salt, chili powder, and pepper
1 tablespoon brown sugar
1 tablespoon tomato paste
tomato juice as needed for consistency
more spices to taste once everything has come together

Edited November 30, 2024 by Snargfargle

[clammboy]

39 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

This is my family's traditional spaghetti sauce. I'd like to say that it's an old family recipe passed down by my German ancestors but it probably came from the back of a box of spaghetti.

1 onion minced
1 bell pepper minced
1 clove garlic minced (or one teaspoon garlic powder)
1 can tomato soup
1 can tomato sauce
1 pound hamburger (de-glaze with a dash of apple-cider vinegar)
1 teaspoon oregano, cumin, salt, chili powder, and pepper
1 tablespoon brown sugar
1 tablespoon tomato paste

 

 

 

 

 

 

That sounds a bit like a chili recipe.... No offense meant but my Italian grandmother is rolling over in her grave right now. But I am going to try your recipe and let you know how it is because I am a cook so you never know it's probably awsome. Thanks!

Edited November 30, 2024 by clammboy

[Wolfswetpaws]

Wholesome entertainment in this educational topic.    🙂 

[I_cant_Swim_]

I'm all for crumbly pie crust. Yes, yes, yes. As for spaghetti sauce, I keep it fairly minimal, but not too thick. This exquisite taste meets no appreciation from my better half, who would make a sauce you could indeed call soup.

Edit.

I was just thinking, if a spoon would stand in my spaghetti sauce - actually yes, I think it would.

[Snargfargle]

42 minutes ago, clammboy said:

That sounds a bit like a chili recipe.... No offense meant but my Italian grandmother is rolling over in her grave right now. But I am going to try your recipe and let you know how it is because I am a cook so you never know it's probably awsome. Thanks!

I only know that the "family spaghetti" is always a hit with the little kids to the seniors. There are other dishes that sometime get picked at but that one always gets snarfed down. We serve it with garlic toast and a salad, and, of course, Parmesan cheese. I, personally, put a drizzle of Dorthy Lynch salad dressing on top of my spaghetti for a bit of extra flavor.

 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Snargfargle

[Efros]

Pie crust depends on the pie. Most pies in UK are designed so that they can be held in the hand and the crust is robust enough for that to be achieved. Dessert pies tend not to be eaten that way and tend towards the crumblier texture. Puff pastry is used as a topping pastry for some single crust steak/meat pies baked in a dish, and also for the pastry in pasties, sausage rolls, and bridies, the best known exception being the Cornish pasty which is made with shortcrust pastry. We also have steamed pastries which are dense and use suet in their recipe. Suet pastry which is baked and has a unique texture and flavour.

[Snargfargle]

In medieval times, the pie crust was oftentimes a simple flour-water paste that created a rock-hard shell. It was meant to serve as a cooking pot, storage can, and serving bowl but not to be eaten per se.

Although they had little idea of germ theory back then, people weren't exactly dumb and had discovered that if a stew was cooked in a sealed crust and kept from being exposed to the air, it would stay fresh for several days longer than if it was just kept in a pot.

When I was a kid, we had some really good school cooks. They made actual pizza pies -- pizza ingredients baked in a pie crust. Those pies were amazingly tasty. 

 

 

 

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

6 hours ago, HogHammer said:

I have to side with your better half. The only pie I want to hold is pizza. Now for spaghetti sauce: not thick like masonry cement, but definitely not soup-like.

5 hours ago, clammboy said:

I have to side with your wife on the sauce if a spoon can stand up in it you have done something seriosly wrong. It should be just thick enough to stick to and coat the pasta. I am with you about the pie crust I like it a little firm. 

Let me tell you a story year ago about one time I was travelling through Scranton, PA in November. My wife and I stopped by a Shoney's like restaurant on a Saturday. They had a buffet with Spaghetti and meatballs. The noodles were not al dente and the sauce was mostly water with a ketchup taste. It was very soupy sauce. How does anyone mess up Spaghetti sauce? From then on I made sure my Spaghetti sauce was thick. Put down my likes of Spaghetti sauce based on restaurant trauma. 

3 hours ago, clammboy said:

That sounds a bit like a chili recipe.... No offense meant but my Italian grandmother is rolling over in her grave right now. But I am going to try your recipe and let you know how it is because I am a cook so you never know it's probably awsome. Thanks!

Don't bring up chili making. That is a separate subject by itself. 😄

1 hour ago, Efros said:

Pie crust depends on the pie. Most pies in UK are designed so that they can be held in the hand and the crust is robust enough for that to be achieved. Dessert pies tend not to be eaten that way and tend towards the crumblier texture. Puff pastry is used as a topping pastry for some single crust steak/meat pies baked in a dish, and also for the pastry in pasties, sausage rolls, and bridies, the best known exception being the Cornish pasty which is made with shortcrust pastry. We also have steamed pastries which are dense and use suet in their recipe. Suet pastry which is baked and has a unique texture and flavour.

Very interesting to hear. So pies are more as meals in UK than desserts. Is that correct?

[clammboy]

3 hours ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

How does anyone mess up Spaghetti sauce? From then on I made sure my Spaghetti sauce was thick. Put down my likes of Spaghetti sauce based on restaurant trauma. 

Take it from me I own a restaurant and I'm a cook there are many different types of Italian pasta sauces most are pretty easy to make but very hard to make good or great. 

3 hours ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

Don't bring up chili making. That is a separate subject by itself. 

I brought up chili because a lot of these ingredents go in chili and have no business in a real Italian tomatoe sauce or Sunday sauce. Again no offense snarg I am really going to try it and it sounds good it's just different then a real italian spaghetti sauce.

 1 onion minced
*1 bell pepper minced          [not really unless making stuffed peppers and sauce for them]
1 clove garlic minced (or one teaspoon garlic powder)
*1 can tomato soup        [ Please god no]
1 can tomato sauce
1 pound hamburger (de-glaze with a dash of apple-cider vinegar)     [please please god no]
1 teaspoon oregano, cumin, salt, chili powder, and pepper
*1 tablespoon brown sugar          [please don't do it]
1 tablespoon tomato paste
*1 tomato juice as needed for consistency        [Please please god no]
more spices to taste once everything has come together

Again cooking is an art and just because someone does it different doesnt mean its not great. I was just making a joke that my off the boat Italian grandmother would be rolling over in her grave if she saw this recipe for Italian sauce it was meant as a joke.

Edited November 30, 2024 by clammboy

[Taylor3006]

We make Texas ragu in my house which is thicker. IIRC, marinara is the thinner sauce but it usually does not have meat. 

2 big cans whole tomatoes (yellow label, forget the name)

equal parts ground pork and ground beef (we grind our own from what is on sale usually pork shoulder and beef brisket)

olive oil

diced onions and garlic

red or white wine (not too much)

salt & pepper

diced fresh jalapenos (or serranos)

basil  (I prefer fresh but it isn't always available)

two cans of Rotel

 

I don't use measurements, just always eyeball it and go by taste.

Cook up the meat in olive oil and then add in all the veges that are diced fine. 

I put the canned tomatoes in a food processor to be the sauce. This is where I put the fresh basil too, get it chopped up nicely into the sauce base. Once it is good, I add everything to the pot with the meat and let it cook for at least two hours. I have put this in a slow cooker and allowed it to cook overnight but honestly did not see too much a difference doing that over stovetop cooking for several hours. 

This is a pretty standard Italian ragu BUT since we are Texans and enjoy the heat, we add the peppers, Rotel, and cayenne just to warm things up a bit. We also use the Rotel to add some chunks of tomatoes as sometimes I get carried away processing the canned, whole tomatoes. In Italy they like them more crushed than processed. Being an American I like a smoother base sauce but that is just me. Also if I need more liquid, I use tomato paste with a water/wine mixture but usually the water in the cans of tomatoes is enough. 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Taylor3006

[Efros]

2 hours ago, Tpaktop2_1 NA said:

Very interesting to hear. So pies are more as meals in UK than desserts. Is that correct?

Our pies tend to be two crust jobs, if it's a single pastry lower crust it tends to be called a tart if it's a dessert. Strawberry tart is about the best example, like all things British there are of course exceptions... onion tart but we can claim the French invented that one. In Scotland we are proponents of hot water pastry and that is used primarily for meat pies (usually Scotch Pies, the only time you'll hear a Scotsman use that word by the way), but also for macaroni pies and beans and mashed potato pies. You can get rhubarb pies using the same pastry. All of these Scotch pies and their variants are designed to be eaten by hand. Scottish Steak pie however is not.

[Snargfargle]

People develop their own tastes and nothing is really "authentic," it's just what the locals in a certain area have gotten used to eating. I grew up eating a hearty meat sauce on my spaghetti. My cousin spent three years in Italy building aerial tankers for their air force. My nieces went to visit him once. They said that the local pizza and spaghetti was OK but that they preferred the versions they grew up with.

The Mexican food I grew up eating was mostly prepared by a local couple because the nearest "Mexican food" chain restaurant is a hundred-mile round trip from here. She was a cook for the school and they also had a small cafe and catered for most of the funerals and weddings around here. She is the daughter of a family who came up here from Mexico and he is an Apache Indian from New Mexico. They finally closed their cafe and retired. In the last decade or so quite a few more Mexicans have come into the area to work in the pork production industry. In fact, we are about half Mexican now. A new lady comes to town and sells her food. It's good but it's not exactly what I'm used to. Both ladies were selling "authentic" Mexican food though.

[Snargfargle]

3 hours ago, Taylor3006 said:

We make Texas ragu in my house which is thicker. I don't use measurements, just always eyeball it and go by taste.

I included measurements because that's what I figured you need to do for a recipe. The actual way I season my spaghetti sauce is to just toss in the spices until it looks like I've got enough and tastes good. In the summer, one of my grandmas would make tomato sauce from fresh garden tomatoes. My other grandma didn't use hamburger but cooked cubes of steak in suet until they fell apart. I think it was Mom who started adding the tomato soup because Dad though it was a waste of good garden tomatoes to put them in a sauce and she didn't consider it worth her time to make home-made sauce anyway. The fresh tomatoes from the garden we ate sliced with a bit of salt and pepper if they were the big ones. The cherry tomatoes went into the salad.

Speaking of Texas, I'm not a Texan I did stay at a Holiday Inn there once so that makes me one, right? Actually, I've spent a lot of time in Texas. My grandma had a place at Port Aransas that we went down to every summer to fish in the Gulf. I went to college there for a while as an undergrad, joined the Army there and was stationed there (Ft. Sam Houston). I spent six months doing genetics research at A&M and also have spent several years doing field research in the state. I've canoed and trapped along most of the major western rivers, specifically the Canadian, Red, Brazos, Colorado, Nueces, Pecos, and Rio Grande. I spent a summer as Boy Scout camp counselor in the Big Thicket on a TDY assignment from the Army. I've canoed the Sabine from the lake to the Gulf too. I can probably say that I've seen more of Texas than most Texans have.

[thornzero]

Never liked my sauce watery at all. I find a little parmesan cheese helps to thicken it a bit if that is the case which you will find does not thicken it too much.

As for pie; I choose crumbly. Never ate a piece of pie without a fork. I usually eat the crust first so the last bite has filling.

One of my grandmother's made the regular pies and the other one made a hamburg pie at Thanksgiving which was truly the best.

It's been a while since I made an apple pie. I've attempted it three times and the first two were horrible. #3 was better. I should try again.

[HogHammer]

57 minutes ago, thornzero said:

One of my grandmother's made the regular pies and the other one made a hamburg pie at Thanksgiving which was truly the best.

Of my two grandmothers, rest their souls; one could REALLY cook, and the other, well, say no one starved to death.  

The "other's" recipes centered around cheap ground beef and a can of Campbell's condensed tomato soup.

You want spaghetti, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Sloppy Joes, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Meatloaf, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Chili, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

The list goes on and on...

[Justin_Simpleton]

42 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

You want spaghetti, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Sloppy Joes, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Meatloaf, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

Chili, ground beef, plus condensed tomato soup.

The list goes on and on...

Mmm, mmm, good!!!!!!!!!!

[Admiral_Karasu]

Any fans of sour cabbage pie here? Crusted.

Edit.

@Justin_Simpleton It's good. Really. Honest.

[Mono_De_Mantequilla]

Pie crust should be flaky, but not crumbly, if we are talking traditional Crisco-flour-crust that is.  Poking it with a fork you can break it apart, but it will not disintegrate upon touch.  That said, I would not try to hold a slice by the end crust, you are gonna lose that pie!

I made a two-crust apple pie for thanksgiving, and ended up with some dough left over, so I made a small (about 4-5" diameter) crust in a tart pan and made a little persimmon pie to take along too.

[Snargfargle]

2 hours ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

persimmon pie

I've only eaten one slice of persimmon pie and that was from persimmons I picked with my great-cousin down in southeast Oklahoma. I ate a few off of a tree while on a field problem in Louisiana too. Everyone thought I was nuts until I told them to try one and soon that tree was crawling with soldiers. My sergeant said "What are those idiots all doing out in the rain" and I said "That's a ripe persimmon tree." He then ran over and joined them in the picking.