Am I cheating using Aslains mods?

[Sumseaman]

I'll admit that I'm puerile and vulgar but I'm still at a moral quandary when it comes to some of the mods in Aslains pack.

Only recently started using some and while I see no problem with the 'quality of life' options (what I believed it all to be) some of what is available offer a sizeable advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

Enhanced minimap information, 3D representations, clarity in the water, no fog, tracer shells....it just makes many tasks so much easier.

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating. I know its readily available so anyone can get it though for those that don't....they're on the back foot. I actually used a leading, weakspot aimbot for 6 months in WoT to see if WG lives up to the 'We will catch and ban cheaters'. Not a peep. So its either cheat or be at a possible disadvantage every time.

Thoughts little dudes.....thoughts. 

Edited Friday at 09:49 PM by Sumseaman

[MidnightPhoenix07]

10 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating.

And that's the most important part. WG doesn't consider any of them to be cheating, so they're fine to use. In fact, most of the non-cosmetic mods are either just combining multiple sources of data into one spot (like some of the team panels mods that show ship health, or the consumable status mods), providing visual representations of stuff you can estimate (like the cap time mods or ship angle) or get from other sources (like ship detected indicators), or fixing things that were potential issues with vanilla features (specifically some of the scaling issues with the default dynamic crosshair that have been fixed/improved with some of the modded ones). Even the ship panel mods that showed which build a ship was using was just presenting existing information in an easier to read form, since the rating numbers in the battle loading screen showed the same thing if you memorized the numbers.

The only mod that I can think of that provides info that is only available by using the mod is knowing how many ships are locating you. You could argue that should be considered cheating, but WG doesn't and they're the only one that really matters here. 

 

Actual cheats like aimbots are absolutely considered cheating and can result in game bans if you're caught. And to be honest, aimbots are much easier to defeat in WoWS than they probably are in WoT (and in theory less useful) since shell flight times are longer and aimbots would only show where to shoot based on a target's current speed and direction. If you actually know how to aim and lead a target in WoWS, an aimbot wouldn't help much against a straightlining player, and would be more detrimental against any player that's actively dodging. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

24 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

I'll admit that I'm puerile and vulgar but I'm still at a moral quandary when it comes to some of the mods in Aslains pack.

Only recently started using some and while I see no problem with the 'quality of life' options (what I believed it all to be) some of what is available offer a sizeable advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

Enhanced minimap information, 3D representations, clarity in the water, no fog, tracer shells....it just makes many tasks so much easier.

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating. I know its readily available so anyone can get it though for those that don't....they're on the back foot. I actually used a leading, weakspot aimbot for 6 months in WoT to see if WG lives up to the 'We will catch and ban cheaters'. Not a peep. So its either cheat or be at a possible disadvantage every time.

Thoughts little dudes.....thoughts. 

Nope

[Captain Slattery]

18 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

I'll admit that I'm puerile and vulgar but I'm still at a moral quandary when it comes to some of the mods in Aslains pack.

Only recently started using some and while I see no problem with the 'quality of life' options (what I believed it all to be) some of what is available offer a sizeable advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

Enhanced minimap information, 3D representations, clarity in the water, no fog, tracer shells....it just makes many tasks so much easier.

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating. I know its readily available so anyone can get it though for those that don't....they're on the back foot. I actually used a leading, weakspot aimbot for 6 months in WoT to see if WG lives up to the 'We will catch and ban cheaters'. Not a peep. So its either cheat or be at a possible disadvantage every time.

Thoughts little dudes.....thoughts. 

Using Aslain's is no different than flying signals in my opinion.  WG says ok so why not?

Some of the mod's actually help people like me who have bad vision.

[Sumseaman]

31 minutes ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Actual cheats like aimbots are absolutely considered cheating and can result in game bans if you're caught. 

Yes that's the interesting point. What is permitted is far more an advantage in WoWs than an aimbot is. I stopped playing WoT because in that an aimbot was an advantage in that and since WG did nothing about it then that game lost integrity as likely many players were using it.

Oh and @Captain SlatteryI'm glad those mods do help with your vision problems though.

Edited Friday at 10:44 PM by Sumseaman

[I_cant_Swim_]

Agree with the above. If a tool is explicitly allowed, then the fact that it confers an advantage over those not using it cannot be seen as constituting cheating. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 hour ago, Captain Slattery said:

Using Aslain's is no different than flying signals in my opinion.  WG says ok so why not?

Some of the mod's actually help people like me who have bad vision.

THIS! I have piss poor vision and sometimes this game isn't really optimized even for players with 20/20 vision.

 

Also, considering most of the "Quality of Life" changes WG has made to the UI and port etc. over the year´s they have "borrowed/stolen" from mods, so doesn't that make us all "Cheaters" in that case? Seems like a huge part (usually the parts that works) of this game are mods.

Food for thought....

Edited Friday at 11:17 PM by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, Sumseaman said:

I'll admit that I'm puerile and vulgar but I'm still at a moral quandary when it comes to some of the mods in Aslains pack.

Only recently started using some and while I see no problem with the 'quality of life' options (what I believed it all to be) some of what is available offer a sizeable advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

Enhanced minimap information, 3D representations, clarity in the water, no fog, tracer shells....it just makes many tasks so much easier.

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating. I know its readily available so anyone can get it though for those that don't....they're on the back foot. I actually used a leading, weakspot aimbot for 6 months in WoT to see if WG lives up to the 'We will catch and ban cheaters'. Not a peep. So its either cheat or be at a possible disadvantage every time.

Thoughts little dudes.....thoughts. 

This and other reasons are why the game's e-sports scene is a joke.

The game isn't meant to be played ultra-competitively...it's a meme generator FOR FUN.

That's why WG isn't too bothered with dealing with performance enhancing mods.

[Viridem]

I can see how some mods could be seen as cheating. The one that pings your map every time an opposing sub pings or an oil spills appears can certainly feel like cheating, for example (I don't think it is, at all).

 

Cheating is obtaining an advantage over your opponent in a way that is unfair, dishonest or deceitful.

Having an advantage over your opponent is baked-in the game. Some ships are straight up stronger than others, we have +/-2 MM, and some match-ups are strongly in favor of one over the other.

Sometimes the situation goes to the point where it is just unfair, yet it's by design, because WG decided it ought to be so: the game is already unfair. It is no excuse however to make it even more unfair. Someplace being dirty is no reason to throw thrash around!

It's not dishonest in any definition if you're using officially allowed mods, you use them without bad intentions (how???), or don't find them immoral.

As for being deceitful... I'm not sure how you can do that with aslain.

 

So it's all down to your own perception of what is fair and moral.

It's sensible to assume that what WG allows is moral to use in WoWs, but we all know that the company isn't always the best with balancing its game, and that they might do the same with mods: allowing mods that shouldn't be allowed.

None of the mods from Aslain come even close to an aimbot, and only a few are at worst in a grey zone. Very few people seem to complain about them, too.

 

So I'd say follow your heart. If you feel that X allowed mod is unfair or immoral, don't use it.

If you don't think you're cheating, and no one could reasonably accuse you of cheating, then go ahead!

 

Personally, I use cosmetic and minor quality of life mods, the one that pings sub pings and oil spills (I think it's unfair, but to me it balances an unfair class), regen assistant (it tells you how much HP a heal can restore and alerts you when heal comes out of cooldown), smoke assistant, and a couple more gameplay related mods with minor impact (or that I never actually use in practice...).

I avoid that mod that tells you each player's stats, as I think it can be both unfair and counterproductive, depending on the situation. I kindly encourage everyone to avoid it, with no strong feeling. You do you, it doesn't really matter with this one, in the end.

I also don't play CVs and submarines, as I hate playing against them. I wouldn't call them cheating, but for sure they're not fair in my eyes!

Edited Friday at 11:41 PM by Viridem

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I basically play un-modded because I'm too lazy (or value the game time so little, either is true) to go through the effort of installing and maintaining them.

[WES_HoundDog]

1 hour ago, Viridem said:

Cheating is obtaining an advantage over your opponent in a way that is unfair,

Yup,   i think thats pretty much the point of his post

[Frostbow]

6 hours ago, Sumseaman said:

Only recently started using some and while I see no problem with the 'quality of life' options (what I believed it all to be) some of what is available offer a sizeable advantage when it comes to situational awareness.

I first learned of mods (in WG's ModStation) when I was already in the middle of the For Honor combat missions to get the Unique Upgrade of my first Tier X, the Zao. Initially my interest was on what mods would make the user interface look 'futuristic' and more 'interesting' for me, but it eventually progressed to choosing mods that would give 'quality of life' to the admittedly vanilla experience of the game's UI.

When I started grinding for my 4th Tier X, I shifted to Aslain's (courtesy of ModStation's consistent delay in updates), and the QoL improvements got an even bigger boost.

I was thinking, "damn, how come I only learned/discovered/used this now when I'm already at Tier X?"

6 hours ago, Sumseaman said:

WG doesn't seem to consider any of these cheating. I know its readily available so anyone can get it though for those that don't....they're on the back foot.

The way I see it, all information presented in mods can be seen without the use of mods, that is why Wargaming has not ruled that the use of mods constitute cheating.

 

[Scorpion_Raider37]

Imo, mods make what's already there.. there. Make sense??

Like your secondaries status, heal reminder, shot timer, etc.

 

[Andrewbassg]

10 hours ago, Sumseaman said:

Not a peep

Well .....  as far as I can tell, the client ( installed game) tracks if it is modified and  that is their method. Once, ~ 1 year into me playing,  toyed around in/with  the config files. The PTS client had an unique viewing perspective/angle/setting/whatevs, which set it apart from the regular client and which wasn't possible to be replicated by mere settings, even if were copied over 100%.  Drove me nuts, coz it was like a "deluxe" version of the game and wanted the same experience in the regular client. I coulnd't track it down, but at one point I managed to remove all camos I.e ALL ships my/teammates/reds  were naked  🙂 and at another the client warned me and didn't launch. Then I stopped and gave up. So there's's that.

That being said, I'm not sure that we should discuss this. I mean criticising Wedgie, like over its inaction in this direction is one thing, but .....  this is a different realm. Discussing mods and their "legality" IS ofc ok but discussing cheating, other than its effects......hmmm.....

I'm all for free speech, but freedom of speech isn't absolute and requires responsibility and is not liberty of speech. Liberty and freedom are two different things.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:45 AM by Andrewbassg

[Sumseaman]

Valid points all around.

1 hour ago, Scorpion_Raider37 said:

Imo, mods make what's already there.. there. Make sense??

Like your secondaries status, heal reminder, shot timer, etc.

This is an interesting example. Yes makes perfect sense. I suppose in a war game again situational awareness is everything. For instance when I was in a carrier, I was flying the aircraft knowing a sub was in relatively close proximity. Now correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that sub pings only render in 3D, not usually the minimap. With the relevant mod however the ping caught my eye on the minimap while airborne so it gave me the subs exact location and heading at that time. I was able to manoeuvre the carrier within ASW striking distance, avoid inc torps then wait for a periscope spot attempt. Aircraft were overhead when the scope popped up, I spotted, ASW aircraft away and charges landed. Sub did try to flee but with an exhausted battery was forced to surface and eat rockets.

Now this mentioned scenario would have gone very differently if I wasn't running that mod. For me anyway. If I removed many of the mods I would in a way feel handicapped. That's just my take on it. Even if it's there I might be busy with something else and miss it.  

[Itwastuesday]

I consider all of them cheats. But this isn't a competitive game anyway, I suppose. 

[Verytis]

A lot of those mods should've been baked into the game by default, instead of exporting the work to volunteers.
It's like how the "alternative interface" was off by default. Just depriving players of information.

[Admiral_Karasu]

57 minutes ago, Verytis said:

A lot of those mods should've been baked into the game by default, instead of exporting the work to volunteers.
It's like how the "alternative interface" was off by default. Just depriving players of information.

Yeah, I kind of think along those lines too.

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

I consider all of them cheats. But this isn't a competitive game anyway, I suppose. 

Well, in a sense that someone using certain mods may be playing relatively better than someone who is using an entirely vanilla client to play. However, they aren't secret, restricted, and they are available for free to everyone.

Otherwise, there are some features even in the vanilla client as well as available in the mods that I would consider, in my purely personal opinion, that is, cheats, hacks and exploits and those who know what my background and preference in gaming is know where that's coming from.

[SkullCowboy]

17 hours ago, Viridem said:

Cheating is obtaining an advantage over your opponent in a way that is unfair, dishonest or deceitful.

Unfair would be an advantage your opponent can't also use so, nope. Dishonest? WG used to have a forum section dedicated to accepted mods. Dunno if the Discord does, don't go there much. Deceitful? Part of even un-modded play is deceit. Changing course, throttle juking and other tactics are forms of deceiving opponents about your intentions.

Mods being cheats has been sore spot for certain vanilla puritans that I may have enjoyed prodding in the past. 😈🧤 It's a game. That has approved mods. So not cheating.

 

Edited Saturday at 05:21 PM by SkullCowboy

[AdmiralThunder]

20 hours ago, Captain Slattery said:

Using Aslain's is no different than flying signals in my opinion.  WG says ok so why not?

Some of the mod's actually help people like me who have bad vision.

100% agree and vision issues is why I use the few I do as well.

Aslain's are all WG approved so it is not cheating.