CV planes and Border-Humping.

[majmac]

Just a query for your CV mains: Is it possible to have your planes 'slide' along the border and continue travelling to where you want them to go?

Also, does it affect their detectability?

I was just in a match, keeping an eye on some torpedo planes when they went to the border and (while still in detectability range for a BB) they just disappeared! They popped up about tow minutes later further along the border and heading for our CV.

I was close to our CV and saw them hit the border, disappear, and then reappear on a direct course for our CV.

Can someone check it out? Or is it just a quirk of border-humping with CV planes?

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

He did what with his planes?

Every time my planes have intersected a map border, the game has turned them around - like 180 degrees on the dime. 

Now I have to load up the game in co-op and try to do that thing.

[majmac]

28 minutes ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

He did what with his planes?

Every time my planes have intersected a map border, the game has turned them around - like 180 degrees on the dime. 

Now I have to load up the game in co-op and try to do that thing.

Perhaps the player hit the border at an angle of about 160 degrees?

I may be wrong and just confused. 🙂

Edited November 14 by majmac

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

No idea what he was doing or what you think you saw. I tried all sorts of angles, the border turned my planes 90 degrees no matter what. Probably an optical illusion or a weather balloon.

[SoshiSone]

Planes "bounce" off the border, while being turned automatically into the vector of the bounce.  You can't ride the border like ships.

If the detection ranges is at or near the border, and the angle is away from detection, it's possible you lost detection just as they hit the border and bounced.  They could have then just flew normally parallel to the border after that...appearing two minutes later further along as they re-entered detection.

Aside:  The border bounce can be useful in some instances.  There is a certain range between a ship and the border where the border bounce will aid the time between a first pass and second pass on the target.  You drop the first load across the ship while flying toward the border...you get the bounce that turns you around and then can line up a second strike.  The bounce is a lot faster than a normal turn, resulting in the second strike being in the AA zone for less time between strikes.  This can also work against the planes if the range is insufficient to line up the second strike after the bounce.

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 minutes ago, SoshiSone said:

Planes "bounce" off the border, while being turned automatically into the vector of the bounce.  You can't ride the border like ships.

If the detection ranges is at or near the border, and the angle is away from detection, it's possible you lost detection just as they hit the border and bounced.  They could have then just flew normally parallel to the border after that...appearing two minutes later further along as they re-entered detection.

Aside:  The border bounce can be useful in some instances.  There is a certain range between a ship and the border where the border bounce will aid the time between a first pass and second pass on the target.  You drop the first load across the ship while flying toward the border...you get the bounce that turns you around and then can line up a second strike.  The bounce is a lot faster than a normal turn, resulting in the second strike being in the AA zone for less time between strikes.  This can also work against the planes if the range is insufficient to line up the second strike after the bounce.

 

This.  ^^^^

 @UnderTheRadarAgain and @SoshiSone have explained the phenomena well, @majmac.

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 hours ago, majmac said:

Perhaps the player hit the border at an angle of about 160 degrees?

I may be wrong and just confused. 🙂

I suggest using an affordable CV and trying to fly planes at the map border while in a training-room or a Co-op battle.
I think you'll answer most of your own questions.  🙂 

[Aethervox]

Why does reworked CVs & CV plane 'border humping', as a tactic, why does this 'attempt' not surprise me? 🙄

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 minutes ago, Aethervox said:

Why does reworked CVs & CV plane 'border humping', as a tactic, why does this 'attempt' not surprise me? 🙄

We can't read your mind.
So, unless the question was rhetorical, perhaps you will share your thoughts?

[Aethervox]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

We can't read your mind.
So, unless the question was rhetorical, perhaps you will share your thoughts?

OK, I'll bite here.

border humping = we should all know what this is. We even see CVs run to & remain on a borderline (ensuring their plane turn arounds are as long as can be instead of moving the CV closer to the action (like intelligent CV players do).

I suspect from OP's opening comments that CV planes somehow (possibly can) are showing strange movement routes when their CV is on a borderline. I can't say as 1) I do not play reworked CVs & 2) when I played RTS CVs I never moved my RTS CV to a borderline nor especially a corner (as it was well known one could find an enemy CV there rather often).

Is this sufficient 'my personal' thought for your query?

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 minutes ago, Aethervox said:

OK, I'll bite here.

border humping = we should all know what this is. We even see CVs run to & remain on a borderline (ensuring their plane turn arounds are as long as can be instead of moving the CV closer to the action (like intelligent CV players do).

I suspect from OP's opening comments that CV planes somehow (possibly can) are showing strange movement routes when their CV is on a borderline. I can't say as 1) I do not play reworked CVs & 2) when I played RTS CVs I never moved my RTS CV to a borderline nor especially a corner (as it was well known one could find an enemy CV there rather often).

Is this sufficient 'my personal' thought for your query?

Yeah.  We're not talking about the CV's hull surfing the border of the map.
We're talking about the plane/squadron behavior when they hit a border.
Short version = when planes hit a map border, the planes "bounce" off of the map border.

A CV's hull that is on the map border will behave like other ships' hulls do when they become stuck on a map border.

[Sumseaman]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

This.  ^^^^

 @UnderTheRadarAgain and @SoshiSone have explained the phenomena well, @majmac.

Indeed they have.

I regularly and unfairly use this exploit to my advantage then tell others of it.  

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 minutes ago, Sumseaman said:

Indeed they have.

I regularly and unfairly use this exploit to my advantage then tell others of it.  

👍

[majmac]

Thanks for those explanations.

It probably was the the planes left detection range when they hit the border.

Thank you everybody for clearing that up for me.

I have played CVs and, yes, always 'bounced' back when my planes hit the border.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, majmac said:

Thanks for those explanations.

It probably was the the planes left detection range when they hit the border.

Thank you everybody for clearing that up for me.

I have played CVs and, yes, always 'bounced' back when my planes hit the border.

🙂

[majmac]

10 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I suggest using an affordable CV and trying to fly planes at the map border while in a training-room or a Co-op battle.
I think you'll answer most of your own questions.  🙂 

I jumped in one of my six CVs and took it into the Training Room.

I launched the planes and then lined up at about 176-178 degrees parallel to the border and the auto-bounce just flicked the planes along the border. I did not touch the controls, but let it run to the corner and then as they looped around tried to line them up again. The angle has to be nearly parallel and on the second border it took me a bit longer to get it just right.

So, they can be slipped along the border, but I do not think their spotting range is occluded.

Replay attached.

20241115_114629_PRSA106-Serov_00_CO_ocean.wowsreplay

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 11/14/2024 at 8:58 AM, majmac said:

Just a query for your CV mains: Is it possible to have your planes 'slide' along the border and continue travelling to where you want them to go?

Also, does it affect their detectability?

I was just in a match, keeping an eye on some torpedo planes when they went to the border and (while still in detectability range for a BB) they just disappeared! They popped up about tow minutes later further along the border and heading for our CV.

I was close to our CV and saw them hit the border, disappear, and then reappear on a direct course for our CV.

Can someone check it out? Or is it just a quirk of border-humping with CV planes?

Not a CV Main but yes, youre CV squad will just "bounce" of the map border without losing maneuverability or speed so just the 125:th point on the "How CVs play a different game to all other classes" -list. If you play CVs you usually abuse this BS mechanic to perform quick and perfect 90 degree angle attacks on BBs close to borders. 

In my experience they dont get un-detected but they "bounce around" within the surface ships AA which means their AI controlled AA gunners will miss them completely and the CV will get a perfect second or third strike of.

But outside of this im not sure home much WGs spaghetti coding (disappearance) helps this feature (and CVs) as well.