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Retreat Hell - Movie of the Month November 2024


Admiral_Karasu

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Movie of the Month for November 2024

Retreat Hell

Try having the movie watched by the first weekend or so, that's SAT/SUN November 2 to 3.

Note! Recommended that you use the link to watch the movie in an adjacent tab or new window for ease of reference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUPr-ayGM70

On Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat,_Hell!

And on IMDB:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045082/

 

Spoiler Warning!

image.jpeg.8c2a3507789bb4c0ee2070c8438b02c9.jpeg

If you have no clue about the movie previously, watch the movie first before going into the discussion.

 

General discussion of the movie to follow below.

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When I worked at IBM Boca Raton Lab (home of the PC) in the early 90s we rented a condo in a retirement community.  Wonderful, interesting people.  The little New York guy downstairs was a literary agent, Mort, who was practically blind but still worked.  His lovely wife Elizabeth read to him.  Both in their 80s.  Mort, sweet man, liked my writing.

One chesty old guy was part of the retreat from the Choisin Reservoir.  His story would raise your hair; it raised mine.  This leatherneck saw so much killing he became anti-gun.  One could hardly fault him.

I wonder if this flick will capture some of that.

 

Edited by iDuckman
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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

When I worked at IBM Boca Raton Lab (home of the PC) we rented a condo in a retirement community.  Wonderful, interesting people.  One barrel chested guy was part of the retreat from the Choisin Reservoir.  His story would raise your hair.  This leatherneck saw so much killing he became anti-gun.  One could hardly blame him.

I wonder if this flik will capture some of that.

 

I suppose we'll find out.  🤔

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At least I have his story to measure against.

 

Now that I'm remembering, I really miss them.

 

 

Edited by iDuckman
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4 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

At least I have something measure against.

 

Now that I'm remembering, I really miss them.

 

 

image_2024-09-25_085642419.png.d77c149d8717c3265156ac9db04fdc9d.png

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A bit of trivia for you all:  The Title, "Retreat Hell" has its origins in World War 1.  As Marines were entering Belleau Wood, a large column of French troops was withdrawing.  A French colonel advised the Marines to turn back.  Major Lloyd William replied, "Retreat?  Hell, we just got here."

Later, during the Chosin Reservoir evacuation, Marine Gen. Oliver Smith would be quoted as stating, "Retreat, hell we're just attacking in another direction."

Retreat, Hell" is also the motto of the 2nd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment.

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It was pretty good.  Period in style.  Today the guys wouldn't have made it back. 

My friend would confirm the waves getting to within 6 feet of his jeep.

 

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47 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

It was pretty good.  Period in style.  Today the guys wouldn't have made it back. 

My friend would confirm the waves getting to within 6 feet of his jeep.

 

👍

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It was surprisingly good, and probably one major factor was that the USMC was involved in the making of the movie. A couple of things, though, puzzled me. In a way, it reminded me of Zulu. One other thing is is how it had an almost western like quality about it. The street scene with the machine gun on second floor, for instance. Obviously, I've not been in a combat situation, but is it normal to walk down the street like that? I'd  expect them rather to move along the walls.

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15 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

It was surprisingly good, and probably one major factor was that the USMC was involved in the making of the movie. A couple of things, though, puzzled me. In a way, it reminded me of Zulu. One other thing is is how it had an almost western like quality about it. The street scene with the machine gun on second floor, for instance. Obviously, I've not been in a combat situation, but is it normal to walk down the street like that? I'd  expect them rather to move along the walls.

8 minutes 30 seconds into the movie, they gather at an outdoor training/briefing area.
Their hats, more properly known as "covers", are pulled a bit too far down on their heads and not properly ironed.
Normally the 8 sided top of the cover is sharply ironed and is readily discerned as an 8-sided shape.
Two reasons this can be forgiven in the movie, though. 
1.  They sides of the top of the cover are not stitched, to support the creases. 
2.  the movie actors may not have been expected to abide by such standards.
Thus, I'm probably just voicing a minor quibble.

Let's see what the rest of the movie looks like.  
So far, there are some obvious "tropes" of the era the movie was filmed in, which are common among war-movies of that time.

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17 minutes 41 seconds into "Retreat Hell"
Nice to see someone practicing assembly/disassembly of their rifle while blind-folded.
This was not required when I was serving the USMC, but it was something that I'd see people, including myself, doing on their own initiative for self-improvement purposes.

Shortly before this scene, we see Captain Hanson (and others) being informed to spend time with their families, because their unit ships-out in the morning.
The reluctant behavior of Captain Hanson seems geared towards connecting with the audience.  Again, a movie-making trope.
Actual Marines would thoroughly understand the requirements of the situation, and so would their wives.
There was a saying, "The toughest M.O.S. is being a Marine Wife", where M.O.S. is the acronym for Military Occupational Specialty.

I'm guessing a few more "trope" scenes will happen in the movie.  Let's find out.

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26 minutes into "Retreat Hell".

Some World of Warships "eye-candy", in the form of naval guns being readied for shore-bombardment duty.  🙂 

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15 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

26 minutes into "Retreat Hell".

Some World of Warships "eye-candy", in the form of naval guns being readied for shore-bombardment duty.  🙂 

Yes, it was quite interesting to see the Incheon landing in the movie, warships too!

BTW, I tried having a quick look at the actors' bios, but as far as I could see, the only real marine I could find was 'Major Knox', played by Colonel Peter Ortiz, a Marine officer with an impressive service history.

https://www.museumofthemarine.org/col-peter-ortiz/

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The street scene with the machine gun on second floor, for instance. Obviously, I've not been in a combat situation, but is it normal to walk down the street like that? I'd  expect them rather to move along the walls.

The movement of the Company, by platoons and fire-teams, seemed a bit "scripted" for the sake of making the camera-work and for adhering the the sub-plot of the story.
That said...
I've not been in combat, either.  Yet the movement along the street was a slow advance with the men dispersed enough to prevent one grenade or a spray of machine-gun fire from killing all of them before some of them had a chance to seek cover from the incoming ordnance.  (Some may be hit, as was depicted, but some would survive, also as depicted.)
The leap-frogging while hugging the sides of buildings seems to have come into vogue with the "Saving Private Ryan" and subsequent "Band of Brothers" franchises.
I'm not saying either method of advance was exclusive or precluded the other.
I imagine that seasoned troops would learn both methods, and possibly some other tips & tricks, as part of an urban warfare repertoire.

For some "light reading" in the tradition of Hermione Granger...
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-9/chap3.htm  
  

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Movie "Retreat Hell"
Written on the side of a Bazooka...

Spoiler

58 minutes 11 seconds into the movie
"28 More Shooting Days 'Til Xmas"  
 

 

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

It was surprisingly good, and probably one major factor was that the USMC was involved in the making of the movie. A couple of things, though, puzzled me. In a way, it reminded me of Zulu. One other thing is is how it had an almost western like quality about it. The street scene with the machine gun on second floor, for instance. Obviously, I've not been in a combat situation, but is it normal to walk down the street like that? I'd expect them rather to move along the walls.

The street fighting scene in Seoul is largely Hollywood.  Patrols will not walk down the middle of the street like that.  They'll move in waves, running to cover. 

The mass waves of attackers is reasonably accurate to what I heard from some Korean War vets.  A point of contention is that entrenched soldiers in the defense DON'T yell out orders where the enemy can hear.  The calls of "AMMO!!!" tells the enemy that you're running out.  This gives the enemy points to concentrate troops to try to break through your position.

 

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1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

17 minutes 41 seconds into "Retreat Hell"
Nice to see someone practicing assembly/disassembly of their rifle while blind-folded.
This was not required when I was serving the USMC, but it was something that I'd see people, including myself, doing on their own initiative for self-improvement purposes.

Shortly before this scene, we see Captain Hanson (and others) being informed to spend time with their families, because their unit ships-out in the morning.
The reluctant behavior of Captain Hanson seems geared towards connecting with the audience.  Again, a movie-making trope.
Actual Marines would thoroughly understand the requirements of the situation, and so would their wives.
There was a saying, "The toughest M.O.S. is being a Marine Wife", where M.O.S. is the acronym for Military Occupational Specialty.

I'm guessing a few more "trope" scenes will happen in the movie.  Let's find out.

In Lewis "Chesty" Puller's biography, he talks about after the North invaded South Korea, how he told his wife that they we're about to move from Virginia to San Diego in 24 hours.  In spite of the short turn-around time, she reluctantly acquiesces to the inevitability of the move.  Also in his biography, Puller writes about living in the field in tents for the duration of training in San Diego (Camp Pendleton.)

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2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

8 minutes 30 seconds into the movie, they gather at an outdoor training/briefing area.
Their hats, more properly known as "covers", are pulled a bit too far down on their heads and not properly ironed.
Normally the 8 sided top of the cover is sharply ironed and is readily discerned as an 8-sided shape.
Two reasons this can be forgiven in the movie, though. 
1.  They sides of the top of the cover are not stitched, to support the creases. 
2.  the movie actors may not have been expected to abide by such standards.
Thus, I'm probably just voicing a minor quibble.

Let's see what the rest of the movie looks like.  
So far, there are some obvious "tropes" of the era the movie was filmed in, which are common among war-movies of that time.

I just looked this up because it piqued my curiosity, the eight-pointed Marine cover was adopted during WW2.  I was fairly certain that Marines used the rounded ball-cap version pre-WW2 but wasn't certain when they changed over.

 

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1 minute ago, HamptonRoads said:

I just looked this up because it piqued my curiosity, the eight-pointed Marine cover was adopted during WW2.  I was fairly certain that Marines used the rounded ball-cap version pre-WW2 but wasn't certain when they changed over.

 

Yeah, by the Korean "conflict" the 8-sided cover was in-use, based upon my casual internet search results.

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Movie "Retreat Hell"

I haven't studied the "Frozen Chosin" history.  Was interesting, for me, to learn that the Royal Marines were involved.  
Good to know.

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