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Seeking to improve in Random with Spanish line


Pan_De_Muerte

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I've been playing World of Warships for a bit now (month or so?) and worked through the Spanish line. I also whaled the Almirante Oquendo since it seemed interesting, and the Canarias for completion OCD. In general I like the speed, the fast and flat shells, and the accuracy. I'm trying to learn how to kite and be an open water fighter. I don't like how I blow up so often.

Am I being too aggressive? My normal instinct was to charge full speed ahead and go in guns blazing, but after reading the WoWs blog on the Spanish line I started to hold back. I think even now I'm either being too aggressive or getting in too deep too quickly, because I'll see myself doing well and then suddenly I'm in a crossfire or I just get obliterated by a battleship at range.

I've also tried some other lines but nothing's clicking with me right away. I'd say for a cruiser I'd like a heal, quick firing guns so I can dial my aim in, enough armor to make a mistake and live to make a second one, and enough speed to not be committed to one flank for the duration of the battle.

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@Pan_De_Muerte You might be a little too aggressive. You need to be careful of crossfire, especially if you come out from the cover of an island, or if you get spotted by any ship or by the CV. I myself find cruisers often very tricky to play with.

If you need specific advice, upload a replay file. For a new player, I'd also like to say that beware of WG's monetizing tactics, and don't rush up the tiers. Take your time to learn how to play, especially if you plan to try out the competitive modes later on. I'm a very casual player myself, so others will be able to tell you about that side of the game better.

Welcome aboard!

image.jpeg.e19c6b8d888bca5609374c718726fd66.jpeg

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The Spanish tech tree cruisers excel at taking up positions on flanks due to their high base speed. It is also where they are likely to meet other cruisers, against which they generally have good matchups. Burst fire is an effective tool against DDs if your aim and anticipation is good. Picking extended fights with BBs is tricky as the armor is not thick enough to bounce repeated AP salvos; engage them with burst fire unless they are distracted. 

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4 hours ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

I've been playing World of Warships for a bit now (month or so?) and worked through the Spanish line. I also whaled the Almirante Oquendo since it seemed interesting, and the Canarias for completion OCD. In general I like the speed, the fast and flat shells, and the accuracy. I'm trying to learn how to kite and be an open water fighter. I don't like how I blow up so often.

Am I being too aggressive? My normal instinct was to charge full speed ahead and go in guns blazing, but after reading the WoWs blog on the Spanish line I started to hold back. I think even now I'm either being too aggressive or getting in too deep too quickly, because I'll see myself doing well and then suddenly I'm in a crossfire or I just get obliterated by a battleship at range.

I've also tried some other lines but nothing's clicking with me right away. I'd say for a cruiser I'd like a heal, quick firing guns so I can dial my aim in, enough armor to make a mistake and live to make a second one, and enough speed to not be committed to one flank for the duration of the battle.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Spanish Cruisers.
As @Admiral_Karasu and @torino2dc have pointed-out, one's survival may depend upon good positioning and wisely choosing how many (and which) ships to engage simultaneously.

That said, I am fond of playing the Spanish Cruisers aggressively, as I also often play my Italian Cruisers.
Pushing these ships to their limits in a wild and crazy manner is wonderfully fun in Co-op battles.
So, I have some empathy with your (random battles) predicament.  🙂 

Which is why I agree with the notion of using terrain and concealment management to minimize being in a cross-fire, if possible.
The early stages of a random battle have often seemed like "things are going well", for me.
That is, until a red-team ship or two appears unexpectedly in a position to cause harm to my hull.
"Rut-roh", as Scooby-Doo might say.  🙂 

So, if I'm a couple of kilometers behind my team's DD's, as they scout ahead, I feel able to support them in a random battle.
But, if I'm sailing next to green-team DD's or ahead of them, that might be a clue that I am playing too aggressively.  🙂 

There are probably some good "How to Cruiser" articles or videos available, somewhere, which can teach the fundamentals in more detail.

Possibly some people have analyzed each map and made suggestions of where to sail and what to do when you arrive at a position.
Variations in ship capabilties may further refine a player's decision-making processes.
Player preferences for "what is fun to do" may also affect the situation.

If you feel that you are getting sunk too often and too early, then I think you are correct to contemplate your actions and make appropriate adjustments.  🙂 

GettingSunkisjustthebeginning_meme_saved05-15-2021_image_2021-05-15_145631.png.5694985abde469d6a5fab717f46dac7a.thumb.png.f3998fec4f66e228330818245c3db22d.png  

If you have the time, consider watching @Lord_Zath's Twitch stream when he performs "Replay Analysis" on-stream.
And @BOBTHEBALL runs a help-desk which may be able to offer some constructive feedback.
Others on this forum may be able to offer suggestions and helpful tips if you can post a replay or turn your replay into a youtube video.

Hope that helps.  Feel free to communicate your concerns and desired goals for improvement, for further discussion.  🙂 
 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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Very helpful, and Wolfswetpaws you were the one I'd seen commenting on Reddit about Spanish cruisers, and when I encountered you in a random battle you mentioned this site. Thank you.

One thing that puzzles me is AP versus HE. When I use my AP on a broadside cruiser, I wind up with low damage overpens. My HE always explodes (no shatters) but it does small amounts of damage.

On a few of my cruisers I have enough skill points to get the fire skill, and that seems to help in setting fires more often.

My highest ranked captain has 19 skill points and is closing in on 20. My hope is to get him to 21 and then use the overflow to bring the rest of my captains up to snuff.

I had used the invite code Impactforce when starting my account so I got a number of premiums for free, and I did buy Warspite but it's so desperately slow. I prefer a faster moving experience.

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8 minutes ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

Very helpful, and Wolfswetpaws you were the one I'd seen commenting on Reddit about Spanish cruisers, and when I encountered you in a random battle you mentioned this site. Thank you.

One thing that puzzles me is AP versus HE. When I use my AP on a broadside cruiser, I wind up with low damage overpens. My HE always explodes (no shatters) but it does small amounts of damage.

On a few of my cruisers I have enough skill points to get the fire skill, and that seems to help in setting fires more often.

My highest ranked captain has 19 skill points and is closing in on 20. My hope is to get him to 21 and then use the overflow to bring the rest of my captains up to snuff.

I had used the invite code Impactforce when starting my account so I got a number of premiums for free, and I did buy Warspite but it's so desperately slow. I prefer a faster moving experience.

Glad you made it here, @Pan_De_Muerte🙂 
That's right.  We shared a game last night.  👍

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11 hours ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

One thing that puzzles me is AP versus HE. When I use my AP on a broadside cruiser, I wind up with low damage overpens. My HE always explodes (no shatters) but it does small amounts of damage.

I hear you.

The armor-scheme of the target and whether or not they are broadside to you affects the choice of ammunition to use.

Thinly armored cruisers often use the over-pen mechanic to minimize damage to their hull, by presenting us with their broadside.

So, ....
~First = identify the cruiser in question and sort them by "light cruiser" and "heavy cruiser".
The  light cruisers tend to have thinner armor.  (Over-penetration of a heavy cruiser remains possible, if less likely.)

~Second = aim at the parts of the ship that have things likely to stop & arm your armor-piercing ammunition (if that is what you are shooting).
These tend to be areas under the turrets, where the gun traversing mechanisms and the ammunition magazines are located.
Alternatively, if they present you with their bow or stern (instead of their broadside), and you're close enough to make a well-aimed shot, hit their turrets and attempt to knock them out of action.

~Third = if the target is thinly armored and broadside to you, then switch to High Explosive ammunition when feasible.
There's less chance of over-penetration and you may start a fire or incapacitate modules and other stuff like secondary battery, AA guns and torpedoes.

~Fourth = if you know your main-guns can over-match the target's armor, and the target is not broadside, and instead presents you with their bow or stern, then consider using AP ammunition to hit their turrets, magazines, engine-room, citadel-area of the ship.
If you cannot over-match, then using H.E. ammunition may be preferable.  The superstructure is likely to be vulnerable.

~Fifth = If a well-armored target is presenting their broadside, and your AP ammunition is unable to penetrate their main-belt (just above the waterline), then consider trying to hit the upper-hull (just below the main-deck, where casemate-mounted secondary battery guns are often found on battleships).
The armor here may be vulnerable to A.P. ammunition.
If that isn't feasible, because the distance is too far for a precise shot, then consider using H.E. ammunition to set fires and incapactitate equipment & weapons.

The above is a rough decision-process. 
Refinement may be necessary with some experimentation and experience with the ships you sail and the opponents they encounter.  🙂 
 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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Interestingly, with some ships and some targets you can actually also get citadel hits with HE.

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16 hours ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

I've been playing World of Warships for a bit now (month or so?) and worked through the Spanish line. I also whaled the Almirante Oquendo since it seemed interesting, and the Canarias for completion OCD. In general I like the speed, the fast and flat shells, and the accuracy. I'm trying to learn how to kite and be an open water fighter. I don't like how I blow up so often.

Am I being too aggressive? My normal instinct was to charge full speed ahead and go in guns blazing, 

Yes, majority of the cruisers in-game shouldn't be rushing in charging at the enemy. Unless it's a Petro or something like that.

16 hours ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

I think even now I'm either being too aggressive or getting in too deep too quickly, because I'll see myself doing well and then suddenly I'm in a crossfire or I just get obliterated by a battleship at range.

Always check your minimap, look who is spotted, look who isn't spotted. Check the team lineups. If there's a BB with long range but slow shell arcs it's ok to be a bit more aggressive. However if there's something with faster shells it's good to be more careful. It really just depends on the match-up and map. Where you're going and what you want to do.

16 hours ago, Pan_De_Muerte said:

I've also tried some other lines but nothing's clicking with me right away. I'd say for a cruiser I'd like a heal, quick firing guns so I can dial my aim in, enough armor to make a mistake and live to make a second one, and enough speed to not be committed to one flank for the duration of the battle.

This is a tough one really. All cruisers at tier 10 have a heal. Quick firing guns, Des Moines, Jinan or Nevsky. Armour to make a mistake? Petro and maybe Henri. Speed? Henri, Marseilles, Castilla. That's a really tough combination of things. My idea for you would be to go on shiptool.st and look at the different tier 10 cruisers. You may find something that you like.

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4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Interestingly, with some ships and some targets you can actually also get citadel hits with HE.

Yes.  The Omaha is one example.

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1 minute ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Yes.  The Omaha is one example.

And Myoko. And I could swear (if there was no staff present) that some DD's as well.

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2 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

And Myoko. And I could swear (if there was no staff present) that some DD's as well.

The DD's would need to have a citadel, in order for someone to score a citadel hit on them.
But, yes, as you pointed out, there are a number of cruisers with armor-schemes that can be citdadel-hit with H.E. ammunition.  🙂 

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Just now, Wolfswetpaws said:

The DD's would need to have a citadel, in order for someone to score a citadel hit on them.
But, yes, as you pointed out, there are a number of cruisers with armor-schemes that can be citdadel-hit with H.E. ammunition.  🙂 

Ah, no I meant DD HE can sometimes cause citadel hits.

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14 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Ah, no I meant DD HE can sometimes cause citadel hits.

Yes.  That's true, too.
It's hilarious when it happens, eh?  🙂 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been doing better in my Spanish cruisers as of late, playing a more defensive manner further from the front lines.

I try to get turned before opening fire so I'm in kiting position. I've also found enjoyable gunnery using the F key in Almirante Oquendo - it tightens dispersion at the cost of damage output.

It's more satisfying to me to land 11 out of 12 shells and set a fire or two, rather than land three shells. I figure actual damage is about the same.

Unfortunately there are still games where I know I'm going to lose. I try to go out with the most impact I can, but getting spotted by a Smolensk, a Vermont, any of the German secondary BBs, I know I'm heading back to port very quickly.

Perhaps I'm being too greedy in my kiting. I tend to angle so that all turrets can fire. Could I be at a sharper angle so I'm a smaller target, at the cost of reducing my output by 50%? Probably.

I've tried a few different lines as well, to get a better idea of what I'm up against. Kongo, Jervis, Omaha, U-69, Renown. It's such a bloody slog though, fighting tier by tier in randoms, getting deleted more often than not.

I've had the most enjoyment slumming in low tiers though, with Dresden and Charleston, when I'm not in my Spanish line.

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On 10/28/2024 at 5:10 AM, Pan_De_Muerte said:

Perhaps I'm being too greedy in my kiting. I tend to angle so that all turrets can fire. Could I be at a sharper angle so I'm a smaller target, at the cost of reducing my output by 50%? Probably.

You want to turn after you've fired so you're a harder target to hit. Then turn again just before you've reloaded to get all guns off. Watch out for enemies that wait for you to get all guns off as they might fire just before that so you have the highest chance of eating damage.

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I'll have to try that today, once the server is up. Almirante Oquendo is my sole T9 premium, and for the most part I enjoy it now that I'm more reserved and have stopped charging the front lines.

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I was going to offer my little bit but it seem is alot of good advice here.

I am very good with CL/CA cruiser, and is one of my favourite class to play.

Here is list of strategy of cruiser is good to keep in mind.
 

  • Know you country strength and weakness. This go for any class, but for cruiser, it mean difference of 100k and getting deleted.
  • Never ever push in and rush until way is clear, DD have penetrate and you help kill enemy DD and enemy BB is on the run.
  • Find covor. Most cruiser very sensitive , very much so from BB. Learn what ship can shoot over what island at what angle. Use training room for this. Few hours out of 1 day make a difference forever.
  • You will never be perfect. you will get citadeled from across the map sometime, and sometime this game just hate you.
  • Read guides on what ammo to use for what cruiser. Plenty of Youtube videos. Just search "ship name" guide.



Since you having problems learning patience. I suggest you play Duetchelund & Rusija cruisers. These have to play from a distance and cause fires and a headache for enemy.
Never ever charge in with these ship.

I was going to give you a replay to watch but...
image.thumb.png.14ead2733f9d6b9919172b493a7a4a1e.png

I end up with a team like this.

Some team, no matter how good you are, you can never carry.
7 of my team mate had win rate under 43 %

image.thumb.png.e8fab59263beec7acc7d5e589cab6eca.png

Edited by Lady Anesjka
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