Frostbow Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Base XP in Operations has been nerfed once again, and it is rather disappointing. The same amount of time and effort you spend no longer gives you the same amount of Base XP. BEFORE • A 5-star, 4-kill, 320K Operation in Update 13.7 gave me 1659 Base XP, with Sea Star, and Assistant Achievements. AFTER • A 5-star, 7-kill, 319K Operation in Update 13.8, also with Sea Star and Assistant Achievements, awards a substantially reduced 952 Base XP. Why am I not surprised? Someone inside Wargaming really hates Operations with a passion. 3 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Which ship at which tier on both occasions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 4 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: Which ship at which tier on both occasions? Allende last Monday. Schlieffen today. I checked Reddit and Discord moments ago. Other players report the same nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread_Head57 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) With absolutely zero evidence to back this up, I cant help but feel this is meant to disincentivize people leaving the PvP modes for Operations. Similar to how they nerfed original Asymmetric Battles. Also with absolutely zero evidence, I think some WG spreadsheet says PvP players spend more money, so keep the players in PvP. Edited September 4 by Tread_Head57 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornzero Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Twitch stream someone reported there is a bug and WG is working on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 1 minute ago, Tread_Head57 said: With absolutely zero evidence to back this up, I cant help but feel this is meant to disincentivize people leaving the PvP modes for Operations. Similar to how they nerfed original Asymmetric Battles. Wargaming prioritizes that cesspool called Random Battles. The original Asymmetric Battles was a bit too generous, not much, just a bit; but when the nerf came, it was way too much. 3 minutes ago, thornzero said: Twitch stream someone reported there is a bug and WG is working on it. "Working on it." LOL What's wrong with them? Can't they release an Anniversary Update with zero controversy? They really thought they could pull a fast one on us. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 18 minutes ago, Frostbow said: Allende last Monday. Schlieffen today. Apples to oranges comparison. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they are giving out lower rewards for industrialized bot murder with the bot murder machine (and Libertad will bring its own brand of industrialized bot murder, albeit without the torpedoes). The true test will be to play Allende today to the same level and compare that result with before. 14 minutes ago, Frostbow said: Wargaming prioritizes that cesspool called Random Battles. "That cesspool called Random Battles" is the core around which this game is designed. Sure I prefer co-op myself, but just because I prefer it doesn't mean I trash the other modes. As things stand, though, the biggest consistent rewards are in Clan Battles - 2500 Base XP per victory - but to get those, you have to be a consistent winner in a PvP environment where both teams are entirely made up of one huge division with pre-chosen ships on voice comms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 2 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: Apples to oranges comparison. I would agree with you if you play Operations. But you don't. You even mentioned it way back that you avoid Operations. Which means framing the problem from the perspective of the ship I used is defective at best because there are a lot of factors involved in Operations, way more than your favorite Co-op mode. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 5 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: Sure I prefer co-op myself, but just because I prefer it doesn't mean I trash the other modes. It is all up to you. And you hardly play Random Battles, from what you've proudly declared many times before. Which means you are most likely oblivious from the consistently observed continuous decay in playerbase skill in Random Battles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 13 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: "That cesspool called Random Battles" is the core around which this game is designed Exactly. The core is a cesspool. That is why, if you haven't noticed it yet, complaints about the never ending deluge of skill-less players with tens of thousands of battles and bad win rates are a staple in balanced discussions about the game. And we haven't even touched on the toxicity you will encounter in Random Battles, and how rampant botting has been. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Surprise surprise... Wait, not at all. WG will continue to WG, and EC will continue to claim black is white. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 13 minutes ago, Frostbow said: I would agree with you if you play Operations. But you don't. Whether I play operations or not has nothing to do with you comparing a Tier 8 cruiser to the most heavily armed Tier 10 BB in the entire game. They are not the same thing, and a direct comparison of results between the two is potentially misleading. If you want to do comparisons like this, you have to control for all the variables, and that's a big one. If your Allende games post-patch come back with similarly disappointing BXP yields for the same level of achievement, then yes, there's definitely a problem. Otherwise it's no more than a possible indicator that they are selectively nerfing rewards for a ship that finds murdering scripted operations bots a little too easy for WG's comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 21 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: wouldn't be surprised to find that they are giving out lower rewards for industrialized bot murder with the bot murder machine (and Libertad will bring its own brand of industrialized bot murder, albeit without the torpedoes). The true test will be to play Allende today to the same level and compare that result with before. Then what was the PTS for? Your Wargaming thought they could pull a fast one on us. A lot of players over at Reddit have noticed the same nerf, and I do not have to prove my point to anyone, including to those who do not even bother to play Operations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 1 minute ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: Whether I play operations or not has nothing to do with you comparing a Tier 8 cruiser to the most heavily armed Tier 10 BB in the entire game. They are not the same thing, and a direct comparison of results between the two is potentially misleading. If you want to do comparisons like this, you have to control for all the variables, and that's a big one. If your Allende games post-patch come back with similarly disappointing BXP yields for the same level of achievement, then yes, there's definitely a problem. Otherwise it's no more than a possible indicator that they are selectively nerfing rewards for a ship that finds murdering scripted operations bots a little too easy for WG's comfort. Your Wargaming has already acknowledged this issue. You can now stop defending them. It does not make you look good. It never has. 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolitudeFreak Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 We don't need to argue about this. Here's some screenshots. Operation Killer Whale, 3 star victory, 220k+ damage, approximately 18 minutes. Co-op match, 90k+ damage, approximately 6 minutes. BXP earnings are broken most likely due to some avoidable oversight. We should have had a round 3 for further tuning. We didn't get one, further untested adjustments happened, and lo and behold, it's broken on my day off. Yay. I'm actually a little tilted. Mods, you should let me say swears. Now. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrepentantSinner Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 4 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: We don't need to argue about this. Here's some screenshots. Operation Killer Whale, 3 star victory, 220k+ damage, approximately 18 minutes. Co-op match, 90k+ damage, approximately 6 minutes. BXP earnings are broken most likely due to some avoidable oversight. We should have had a round 3 for further tuning. We didn't get one, further untested adjustments happened, and lo and behold, it's broken on my day off. Yay. I'm actually a little tilted. Mods, you should let me say swears. Now. Ouch, that's really, really bad, until this gets fixed, if it does, we are talking about WG after all, it doesn't make much sense to play OPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 14 minutes ago, Frostbow said: Then what was the PTS for? Your Wargaming thought they could pull a fast one on us. You've been in the game this long, and you can't, won't, or don't understand why PTS and live server rewards don't mesh? 14 minutes ago, Frostbow said: Your Wargaming has already acknowledged this issue. My Wargaming? Don't try to make things personal. If they're aware of a known bug, as @thornzero's post suggests, that means they're going to fix it, in which case your impending aneurysm has potentially been for nothing. Now, let's get back to the meat of what I was saying. If you want to compare before and after in a meaningful, objective manner, you have to do so in the same ship. You didn't do that. You weren't even forthcoming about the ships themselves until I asked you about it. You hid that information until it was demanded of you. Maybe T9 and up are bugged, maybe it's selectively nerfed, maybe it's a global issue, but there's no way of knowing because there are no comparative data from previous patches for T9 and up. That's the point I was trying to make. By contrast, @SolitudeFreak's post is immediately convincing. We know what Atlanta should be pulling for that sort of performance in that operation on the live server because we have years of data on it, and this is an automatic red flag. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamptonRoads Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 37 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said: We don't need to argue about this. Here's some screenshots. Operation Killer Whale, 3 star victory, 220k+ damage, approximately 18 minutes. Co-op match, 90k+ damage, approximately 6 minutes. BXP earnings are broken most likely due to some avoidable oversight. We should have had a round 3 for further tuning. We didn't get one, further untested adjustments happened, and lo and behold, it's broken on my day off. Yay. I'm actually a little tilted. Mods, you should let me say swears. Now. Agreed, they should have done a third iteration of playtesting. I submitted a lengthy critique on the PTS feedback survey in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 17 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: your impending aneurysm Stick to the topic. We are talking about the nerf Wargaming has done to the Base XP in Operations. 18 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: By contrast, @SolitudeFreak's post is immediately convincing. We know what Atlanta should be pulling for that sort of performance in that operation on the live server because we have years of data on it, and this is an automatic red flag. You conveniently changed your tune because I replied to your post, at least 10 minutes before @SolitudeFreak posted, that Wargaming has already admitted/acknowledged this problem. I saw what you did there! LOL! 21 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: You hid that information until it was demanded of you. I definitely did not hide anything, and you conveniently omit the fact that I presented statistics. Moreover, I do not believe Base XP is about the ship; Base XP in Operations is about actual skill and performance, not the ship one brings. Even in Co-op, the mode you say you play the most, Base XP is not about the ship. In your haste to defend Wargaming, you come across as utterly confused about Base XP. This is not your sterile laboratory in the hospital where you work. Multiple players have reported the same findings, using ships other than Schlieffen. And there is a post from an EU player (whose servers still have not been patched as of that player's posting) that clearly illustrates the Base XP in 13.7 is higher compared to 13.8 Most importantly, your Wargaming has admitted the issue over at Discord and on Reddit. Hence, your demand for testing is moot and academic. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 2 hours ago, Tread_Head57 said: With absolutely zero evidence to back this up, I cant help but feel this is meant to disincentivize people leaving the PvP modes for Operations. Similar to how they nerfed original Asymmetric Battles. Also with absolutely zero evidence, I think some WG spreadsheet says PvP players spend more money, so keep the players in PvP. Shouldn't they be worried about keeping the players in the game? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, SolitudeFreak said: We don't need to argue about this. Here's some screenshots. Operation Killer Whale, 3 star victory, 220k+ damage, approximately 18 minutes. Co-op match, 90k+ damage, approximately 6 minutes. BXP earnings are broken most likely due to some avoidable oversight. We should have had a round 3 for further tuning. We didn't get one, further untested adjustments happened, and lo and behold, it's broken on my day off. Yay. I'm actually a little tilted. Mods, you should let me say swears. Now. Those look like coop figures to me. You are permitted to say 'swears', as a one time special exemption due to the earnest nature of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 BTW, folks stick to the topic here, those who feel otherwise go put the kettle on. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted September 4 Author Share Posted September 4 42 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: that means they're going to fix it No. It does not automatically mean they will revert back to the usual Base XP we have come to understand and expect after playing countless Operations games in countless ships. Never assume. Since you are confused about Base XP, here's the WoWs Wiki link: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Base_Earnings Below is the screenshot of the relevant portion of the article, so that you can readily dive into it: Again, the issue is the hugely nerfed Base XP in Operations, not the ship used by the player. And Base XP is all about performance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread_Head57 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 55 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Shouldn't they be worried about keeping the players in the game? Depends on whether market analytics indicate more profit in long-term player retention vs. short-term revenue maximization 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Ha! EC thinks WG are going to fix it just because it was raised as a bug? That's not always a guarantee...as CV mains will tell you. Sometimes the bug works the way WG wants it to, so they just leave it as an intended bug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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