Here is what is wrong with WoWS, a 'farce', a 'joke', 'garbage' & a blatant 'CHEAT'.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Having identified the problem, what is your solution? And be sure that the solution does not bring problems that the original situation didn't have. Primum non nocere.

Honestly, it's a waste of my time even suggesting....  No one is listening nor cares.  This game is on Autopilot and it's just a matter of time till they "run out of gas..."

(the solution is obvious: eliminate divisions.)  It would slow the farming.

[Unlooky]

Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

EC seriously created a YouTube video to start shame Aethervox?

Wow.

Yet more reason I have him blocked.

That is INCREDIBLY toxic behavior.

Have you actually watched the video? Or even bothered to look for more than half a second before immediately jumping to conclusions? The video he posted was an unedited recording of the replay, no commentary or any other additions. 

[Unlooky]

Just now, Asym said:

(the solution is obvious: eliminate divisions.)  It would slow the farming.

I guarantee you more people will quit the game over divisons being removed than any perceived decline in match quality by keeping them. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

EC seriously created a YouTube video to skill shame Aethervox?

Wow.

Yet more reason I have him blocked.

That is INCREDIBLY toxic behavior.

1.  The replay was posted by the original poster, namely @Aethervox.
The youtube conversion, without commentary or judgement, simply preserves the replay in a format we can all view and learn from.

2.  I figure that constructive feedback would be helpful in the long-term.  
In some ways, this replay/video is an excellent "training tool" for discussion of tactics and strategic decision processes.

3.  As @Unlooky pointed out, the video was offered without commentary or judgement.  Watching the video may be a worthwhile use of 9 minutes of one's life?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

25 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Have you actually watched the video? Or even bothered to look for more than half a second before immediately jumping to conclusions? The video he posted was an unedited recording of the replay, no commentary or any other additions. 

The commentary is obvious.

EC appears to be trying to claim that Aethervox should be ignored because he is a less skilled player.

We have rules against stat shaming for exactly this kind of behavior.

Do you really think selectively publicizing poor performances is a honorable response to game criticism?

Guys, stop copying WG staff behavior. Stop doing what WG Discord does.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Ensign Cthulhu]

23 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

EC seriously created a YouTube video to skill shame Aethervox?

Wow.

Yet more reason I have him blocked.

That is INCREDIBLY toxic behavior.

Umm, no. I merely acted to preserve Aethervox's replay in video form, which he posted publicly with a request for all who read his post to watch it. viz.

9 hours ago, Aethervox said:

T5s & T6s. A random on Strait. Ofc, they get the 3 player Div. We had none. Ofc, we got the 'pinko'.

I'm in a NM spawned on our cap side. I angle towards our cap to defend. I manage to get First Blood. I'm also firing, as much as possible, at their Div guys. Even though I do this, these other team mates on my side run (an Izmail, a Budyonny & a L'Adroit) & abandon our cap. Incredible! I knew right there we were going to lose. This was a garbage roflstomp loss all due to a blatant WG MM CHEAT.

You be the Judge. You look at this FARCE. Watch the replay. One wonders why players are quitting WoWS. Complaints about the MM are entirely justified when you see this kind of💩.

20240901_080233_PASB034-New-Mexico-1941_08_NE_passage.wowsreplay 1.5 MB · 3 downloads

Size and boldness emphasis mine. 

Others have already commented on the standard of play seen within. I will leave it to them to continue to do so.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

17 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

EC is trying to claim that Aethervox should be ignored because he is a less skilled player.

We have rules against stat shaming for exactly this kind of behavior.

Aethervox told us all to watch the replay and make up our own minds. I merely turned it into a video for him, so it would last beyond the upcoming patch break. I preserved his work for posterity, without changes.

The only one of the two of us commenting on any lack of skill he might have IS YOU.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Unlooky]

24 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The commentary is obvious.

EC appears to be trying to claim that Aethervox should be ignored because he is a less skilled player.

We have rules against stat shaming for exactly this kind of behavior.

Do you really think selectively publicizing poor performances is a honorable response to game criticism?

Guys, stop copying WG staff behavior. Stop doing what WG Discord does.

Last I checked, creating a video out of the poor performance sent in the replay by the original poster so that 

1) People can view the file much more conveniently and

2) So people can actually watch the match after patch day

Is not selective and is not publicizing anything that was not already public. 

[SolitudeFreak]

53 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

EC seriously posted a YouTube video to skill shame Aethervox?

OP posted his replay for others to view.

EC reposted to YT so one doesn't have to boot the game to watch the replay.

54 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

That is INCREDIBLY toxic behavior.

No, it isn't.

[Beleaf]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Yet more reason I have him blocked.

That is INCREDIBLY toxic behavior.

I swear you like to argue for the sake of arguing.

Did the WoWs Discord give you PTSD?

[Nautic_Hunt]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

That would depend on whether he is actually clubbing in mid tiers or legitimately grinding the ship (or regrinding it for the Research Bureau). I am inclined to give him a pass on that one, especially since there are better choices of ship to go clubbing with. 

Yeah, fair point

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, Beleaf said:

Did the WoWs Discord give you PTSD?

Yep.

Saw way too much trolling from certain people to ever think they are posting in good faith.

Actions have consequences.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[clammboy]

8 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

"I demand that WG take other people's right to play with their friends away, or make them wait forever in queue so that I don't have to face them."

If there isn't a second division hanging around in MM, where are you going to put the first one? How long are you going to make them wait? How much player dissatisfaction do you think THAT will cause? 

 

I wish they could have random games with no divsions and a mode with divisions because in all honesty random games with divsions are not random at all. Your picking who you play with while the rest of the players dont. I do see everyones point here but you cant act like its not a problem it is and it's aggrevating at times. 

I don't play in divisions and I accept the consequences. I know people like to play with friends but it seems like it's more of a way to tilt the odds in your favor then the fun it brings playing with friends. Of course I could be dead wrong but it would be nice to have a random mode with no divsions. Alas this would probably also cause a problem as people wanting to play divsions wouldn't be able to find anyone to play against kind of like clan battles. It's a problem with out an easy solution 

 

[desmo_2]

"Blatant cheat".  Please describe in better detail how your experience was a blatant cheat.

I am a solo player.  I have been since I started playing this game regularly in Open Beta in July 2015.  So, I have not benefited from any division advantages during my playtime.  I am primarily a Random mode player.  My Co-op games are a consequence of many of WG's mission parameters that favor Co-op game play.

During my Random games, I have experienced some stomp losses like the one you describe.  Over the years, I have experienced A LOT of them.  You may be incredulous to hear I have also been on the winning side of such games.  I try to stay unbiased in my recollections on such matters, and have often recorded game to game data to settle any biases I have occasionally held.  My nine year experience as a solo player in Random mode has resulted in a sustained 57% win rate, and a "Personal Rating" of 1,650, or "Very Good" according to one stat site.  Mind you, I only check these stat sites when threads like this pop up because I normally don't give two $hi7s about such things.

My point is, bad games happen.  Good games happen.  Horrible games happen.  Great games happen.  If you don't play well, you will likely experience more bad games.  If you play well, you will likely experience more good games (unless you are a person who tends to ignore positive experiences in favor of negative experiences, which is an unfortunate tendency in human nature).

Focus on playing well and quit obsessing on game outcome.  You will still lose games when you play very well.  But, I think you will find if you consistently play well, your statistics will reflect that.  Once that happens, you will realize these types of posts are based on emotion rather than data.

[majmac]

6 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Japan got rolled because the Allies (the Americans in particular) refused to be rattled even though they had a disastrous start.

And what has this to do with a fantasy game?

B.T.W., I do not agree with the O.P.

[majmac]

I had a Random game yesterday in which I was sailing the Tallinn.

On the Reds was a division made up of a Yorktown, P. Rupprecht and a Baltimore.

About five minutes in (on the Warriors Path Map) I caught a glimpse of the Yorktown on the 2 line and sailing south about halfway down the map and behind some islands.

A few minutes later, a smoke screen was laid, curving around the southern part of the islands and heading towards the point between the A Cap and B Cap.

The division sailed in the smoke with the Yorktown aircraft spotting for the P.R. When the planes left, the Baltimore in the smoke RADARed, and that cycle continued with the CV laying down a smoke curtain as needed. All the time I could not spot the BB, CV or CA in that smoke (With the help of the Yorktown's spotting, they stayed just outside of my RADAR range.) and I became a punching bag for them.

I ran, as did our Soviet BB, who was on that flank as well.

Needless to say, that division was overpowered and steamrolled through that flank and on into the middle, until the BB and the CA were finally killed.

P.S., we lost the match.

 

Edited September 2, 2024 by majmac

[BOBTHEBALL]

13 hours ago, Aethervox said:

T5s & T6s. A random on Strait. Ofc, they get the 3 player Div. We had none. Ofc, we got the 'pinko'.

I'm in a NM spawned on our cap side. I angle towards our cap to defend. I manage to get First Blood. I'm also firing, as much as possible, at their Div guys. Even though I do this, these other team mates on my side run (an Izmail, a Budyonny & a L'Adroit) & abandon our cap. Incredible! I knew right there we were going to lose. This was a garbage roflstomp loss all due to a blatant WG MM CHEAT.

You be the Judge. You look at this FARCE. Watch the replay. One wonders why players are quitting WoWS. Complaints about the MM are entirely justified when you see this kind of💩.

20240901_080233_PASB034-New-Mexico-1941_08_NE_passage.wowsreplay 1.5 MB · 4 downloads

I had a watchy watch and I don't think it's just the fault of the MM and players. Before I say anything else however I don't mean this as anything negatively about you in anyway. Ammo selection, dcp usage and positioning can all be worked on.

[Nautic_Hunt]

A watch of the replay and a visit to wows numbers (for context) is enlightening.

I'll conclude that "here is what is wrong with WoWS" is an inaccurate title for this thread.

Edit - the scrolling in and out is painful to watch, use the Shift key.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Nautic_Hunt

[OT2_2]

The OP made personal gameplay public and has been asking other members to look at it. It's more than natural that others come to other implications and conclusions. Critiscm of OP's gameplay can be a result as well, nothing special about that. 

In this particular case I don't want to go deep, but as a result I would like to see that WG is going to limit numbers of divisions in random battles. The influence (thumb) of many divisions isn't healthy for the game itself and counteracts randomness. One div at maximum per side with not more than 3 members. A division has to be mirrored! If people start to complain about queue - time then they have to be reminded of actual life, where one has to pay for extras, so called surcharges. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

8 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Playing a game like that and then immediately going on to complain about rigged matches and cheating. 

What do you mean by 'like that'? Half his team melted away faster than ice cream on a hot summer's day. It's also impossible to do anything if you are focused by both a sub and/or CV on a constant basis. You can't exactly carry even yourself if you have to fight in torpedo soup.

I wouldn't, though, be complaining about rigged matches and cheating, you are right there. What we see is mostly due to incredible bad game mechanics and poorly implemented balance choices, lack of counter play/counter measures in particular. If the game has a class that fits a dedicated slot, there needs to be a dedicated class to counter their actions. Not a bagful of poorly devised gimmicks.

[torino2dc]

A napkin match analysis. 

Matchmaking

Spoiler

The matchmaking is unpleasant for a BB like the New Mexico. CV + 2 subs + a Kamikaze is no fun. A well-played Giulio Cesare can also be difficult to deal with because the ship is good at killing our teammates. That said, we are a beefy top-tier BB, so it is our responsibility to help carry this match.

Initial Deployment

Spoiler

North-east spawn on Strait, the priority is to defend the small island (1), with a cross fire from mid island (2).

If the team abandons or dies at (1) then the cap should be defended from (3).

If the team lemming trains to (2/3) then the player should go to (4) to re-establish the cross fire.

Heading towards (2) is a fine opener from a slow BB, the player just needs to leave enough room to turn around if the engagement at (1) is lost.

After first engagement

Spoiler

Good job securing the opening kill, it is important to clear the easy targets as quickly as possible in matches against opponents we anticipate to be tough.

The main learning point here is that once the entire flank starts kiting towards mid, we should have turned around immediately.

It sucks to have to hold the corner but someone has to do it, otherwise the cap is already theirs.

Ammo Selection

Spoiler

HE is fine against T6+ BBs if they aren't showing broadside. Against T5 battleships that only have 19mm armor, AP should be the default.

This Giulio wasn't particularly disciplined about his angles, but we never punished him for it. 

After we lose our DD

Spoiler

At the very very latest when we lose our Minekaze, we should have turned around to kite. We need to force the Kamikaze to choose between hunting us or taking the cap. By continuing to push it makes it very easy for the enemy BBs to focus us and the Kamikaze to torp us out. The fact that the Kamikaze doesn't manage to do significant damage to us is a miracle and another sign that the enemy 3-man div wasn't particularly laden with talent.

Game state after 5 minutes

Spoiler

The game state after ~5 minutes is not pretty but not hopeless. Their GC is about to fall over. Their Kamikaze (who we recall wasn't super disciplined about vision) is also one-shot. We still have a CV and a good amount of health on our BBs. 

The problem is that we've driven straight into the middle of the map. We are now vulnerable to fire from all directions, plus we are starting to become the easiest target for the enemy CV. If we had defended from B9, this would still be a very winnable game.

Endgame

Spoiler

At this point the game is beyond recovery. A cap defense is no longer possible because the Izmail had no support and bailed.

Post-game stats

Spoiler

The kill on the Königsberg was good and timely, after that things went downhill. Because of our ammo selection, we struggled to kill the Giulio in an adequate window of time. Had he been dead, we could gotten to work chewing up the New York, which would have been an easy matchup due to her non-existent armor. It is difficult to consistently win games with only 33k damage output.

Conclusion

Spoiler

This post was framed as a problem of matchmaking: "You be the Judge. You look at this FARCE. Watch the replay. One wonders why players are quitting WoWS. Complaints about the MM are entirely justified when you see this kind of💩."

However, reviewing the tape there is little evidence to support the idea that the match was lost due to imbalanced matchmaking. The enemy 3-man div played far beneath the capabilities of their ships and could have been held in check by the OP with proper positioning. The match was winnable past the 5 minute mark despite egregious decision-making on behalf of the OP's teammates, which is ultimately the best that can be asked of the matchmaker.

Unfortunately, teammate problems were compounded by positional errors by the OP: there were multiple opportunities to turn around and assume defensive positions, but these were never realized. To add to the difficulties, the ammo and shot selection didn't take advantage of the New Mexico's firepower versus T5 battleships.

I would recommend that the OP work on specifically on the awareness of their ship position in various game states; further I would recommend refamiliarizing themselves with the overmatch thresholds of 356mm AP and the armor schemes of common battleships in the New Mexico's matchmaking bracket. 

Lesson of the day

Spoiler

Teammates may dig their own positional graves, but it is the player position that nails their coffin shut. 

[thornzero]

18 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

A napkin match analysis. 

I knew when it said you posted I was looking forward to what you had to say. Thank you for taking the time to draw this out with a full explanation.

Edited September 2, 2024 by thornzero

[Admiral_Karasu]

@torino2dc Very enlightening, thank you.

[I_cant_Swim_]

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

I knew when it said you posted I was looking forward to what you had to say. Thank you for taking the time to draw this out with a full explanation

Indeed, an excellent analysis. No surprises - It's a Torino^TM

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 minutes ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

Indeed, an excellent analysis.

That's Torino for you. "Napkin analysis" he says, then proceeds to pull out a napkin he could drape the State of Texas with. 

Rumour has it that OG Pizza Hut banned him for life because he used up their entire supply of puzzle placemats and stubby pencils. 🤪