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so....about those youtubers....... (the off topic part)


Asym

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Oh yes !  There are all sorts of YT commentators on every type of firearms ever imagined !  Cannons.  Machine Guns. Artillery.  And, some that experiment with "what if" type of military applications !

My favorite is the M134 Ball turret.  Where a inventor took four, M-134 miniguns and mounted them to a WW2 style Sperry ball turret that sat dorsally (sitting up not suspended underneath)  OMG what an Anti-Missile concept !!

Now, if I were going to start tinkering or creating, I'd create an Anti-Drone platform that would be very similar to what the MBT-70 had in the 1970's - an autonomous, self controlled secondary turret:

image.thumb.jpeg.0a6096e94f5922c9682209bd49d36316.jpeg   a 20mm self contained cannon in an added blister

Now, imagine a 4 bore auto shotgun or even a 3.5 inch 12 gauge, with a 100 round drum, that is welded to the armored vehicle's top, sides or rear deck, that has full motion detection and thermal tracking and it shoots #4 shot on full auto.  Turn it on and forget about drones !

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21 hours ago, Asym said:

Oh yes !  There are all sorts of YT commentators on every type of firearms ever imagined !  Cannons.  Machine Guns. Artillery.  And, some that experiment with "what if" type of military applications !

My favorite is the M134 Ball turret.  Where a inventor took four, M-134 miniguns and mounted them to a WW2 style Sperry ball turret that sat dorsally (sitting up not suspended underneath)  OMG what an Anti-Missile concept !!

Now, if I were going to start tinkering or creating, I'd create an Anti-Drone platform that would be very similar to what the MBT-70 had in the 1970's - an autonomous, self controlled secondary turret:

image.thumb.jpeg.0a6096e94f5922c9682209bd49d36316.jpeg   a 20mm self contained cannon in an added blister

Now, imagine a 4 bore auto shotgun or even a 3.5 inch 12 gauge, with a 100 round drum, that is welded to the armored vehicle's top, sides or rear deck, that has full motion detection and thermal tracking and it shoots #4 shot on full auto.  Turn it on and forget about drones !

 

21 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

They developed a new one on Ucraine... some guys with shotguns riding over the vehicle 😕

While both of the solutions (to deal with missiles/drones) you mentioned have their roots in necessity, the limitations of the solutions were soon discovered.
1.  Limited range (of the shotgun, machinegun, whatever).
2.  Limited ammunition.
3.  Limited effectiveness (due to factors such as difficulty of hitting the target or the ammunition's ability to damage/destroy the target).

Supplementing your solution concepts are devices used to "jam" the communication between the missile/drone and it's guidance features (global positioning satellite networks, radar and/or drone pilots using visual signals from cameras). 
Thus, the smarter drones and missiles have since been designed to guide themselves upon being jammed.

Binkov's Battlegrounds youtube channel has several videos which discuss drones & missiles, and the measures used against them, in current real-world situations.
 

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21 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

They developed a new one on Ucraine... some guys with shotguns riding over the vehicle 😕

 

Actually, there are several videos of Troops that saw a Drone approaching a tank and started shooting at it with their AK-74's....!   And, failed miserably at say, 75 yards.....  

They had the right idea with the wrong weapon.     But, a Benelli SBE in 10 gauge, with a 100 round drum, shooting #4 shot with a auto-indexing choke choke, mounted in an electric semi turret, that has a fully autonomous turret with thermal and motion detection systems, that extend up to shoot over the Commander's station to provide 360 degree coverage would be simple to create and field.....

Why hasn't anyone done it yet?  Well, let's say this about innovation:  it harder than heck to even get the Government to look, let alone create something they haven't though of first (where some Senator is getting the money because he/she/they/them own the businesses....)  

Case in point:  the Navy's "blue digital camo".......that made "Person Overboard" a hopeless adventure because the Sailor was wearing camouflage designed to hide those sailors........in water !  Now, which Senators or Congressmen had a vested interest in the mfg of millions of useless uniforms????  Air Force personnel in Camo at Air Force Bases (SAR and CCT's would need camo so, it wasn't a completely hopeless effort....)  It boggles the mind some days.....

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10 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

While both of the solutions (to deal with missiles/drones) you mentioned have their roots in necessity, the limitations of the solutions were soon discovered.
1.  Limited range (of the shotgun, machinegun, whatever).
2.  Limited ammunition.
3.  Limited effectiveness (due to factors such as difficulty of hitting the target or the ammunition's ability to damage/destroy the target).

Supplementing your solution concepts are devices used to "jam" the communication between the missile/drone and it's guidance features (global positioning satellite networks, radar and/or drone pilots using visual signals from cameras). 
Thus, the smarter drones and missiles have since been designed to guide themselves upon being jammed.

Binkov's Battlegrounds youtube channel has several videos which discuss drones & missiles, and the measures used against them, in current real-world situations.

Thanks for the reply.

Hers's an answer to #1:

Most Tanks killed are tracked for several minutes well with in the effective range of a 10 Gauge Benelli SBE with an auto indexing choke....

image.thumb.png.aa102ee0f0cffdb42167aa09d9edd613.png

The drones are commercial, light duty drones with plastic blades mate...

image.png.7306439b3da146f047602dc512245c7f.png

I would suggest, you spend an hour and watch combat footage of OTT Anti-Armor missiles and drones.....  Shooting steel shot definitely would knock almost any drone and most missiles out of the air.....

Now, Imagine my concept as seen in the movie Aliens !

400

Instead of tripod floor mounts, create a Bustle Rack mount base that can extend upward......  These were suit cased sized and fully autonomous.  Just use 10 gauge steel magnum shot and no drone or missile would survive it !   Remember, missiles have a thermal trace and drone propellers move !  Can't miss them in today's world...

SF and reality aren't all the far apart my friend.... 

 

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You guys seem to be actually way off topic, now as long as nobody minds, I don't think I have to mind either just as long as you keep some things in mind. Carry on.

 

image.jpeg.39f3d33150efb98727769e58ae19b65c.jpeg

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26 minutes ago, Asym said:

Thanks for the reply.

Hers's an answer to #1:

Most Tanks killed are tracked for several minutes well with in the effective range of a 10 Gauge Benelli SBE with an auto indexing choke....

image.thumb.png.aa102ee0f0cffdb42167aa09d9edd613.png

The drones are commercial, light duty drones with plastic blades mate...

image.png.7306439b3da146f047602dc512245c7f.png

I would suggest, you spend an hour and watch combat footage of OTT Anti-Armor missiles and drones.....  Shooting steel shot definitely would knock almost any drone and most missiles out of the air.....

Now, Imagine my concept as seen in the movie Aliens !

400

Instead of tripod floor mounts, create a Bustle Rack mount base that can extend upward......  These were suit cased sized and fully autonomous.  Just use 10 gauge steel magnum shot and no drone or missile would survive it !   Remember, missiles have a thermal trace and drone propellers move !  Can't miss them in today's world...

SF and reality aren't all the far apart my friend.... 

 

The cost effectiveness of short-ranged defenses is appealing, when they're faced with light-weight, short-ranged and unsophisticated drones.

As the weapon escalates in size & potency (both in warhead and in range, speed and guidance systems), the "arms race" between the weapon and the defense escalates.

In other words, throw enough money at the problem and one can destroy a target.

Yet when targets are numerous, destroying them can get expensive.  So, militaries operate on some kind of budget and try to do the most with the least.

Science Fiction has been leading the way, in terms of weapons/defenses concepts for a long time.  On that, I feel we agree.

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51 minutes ago, Asym said:

Actually, there are several videos of Troops that saw a Drone approaching a tank and started shooting at it with their AK-74's....!   And, failed miserably at say, 75 yards.....  

They had the right idea with the wrong weapon.     But, a Benelli SBE in 10 gauge, with a 100 round drum, shooting #4 shot with a auto-indexing choke choke, mounted in an electric semi turret, that has a fully autonomous turret with thermal and motion detection systems, that extend up to shoot over the Commander's station to provide 360 degree coverage would be simple to create and field.....

Why hasn't anyone done it yet?  Well, let's say this about innovation:  it harder than heck to even get the Government to look, let alone create something they haven't though of first (where some Senator is getting the money because he/she/they/them own the businesses....)  

Case in point:  the Navy's "blue digital camo".......that made "Person Overboard" a hopeless adventure because the Sailor was wearing camouflage designed to hide those sailors........in water !  Now, which Senators or Congressmen had a vested interest in the mfg of millions of useless uniforms????  Air Force personnel in Camo at Air Force Bases (SAR and CCT's would need camo so, it wasn't a completely hopeless effort....)  It boggles the mind some days.....

I want one....

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29 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

You guys seem to be actually way off topic, now as long as nobody minds, I don't think I have to mind either just as long as you keep some things in mind. Carry on.

 

image.jpeg.39f3d33150efb98727769e58ae19b65c.jpeg

Well, if we're too far off-topic, then perhaps creating a separate topic and moving our posts there would be best?

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42 minutes ago, Asym said:

Now, Imagine my concept as seen in the movie Aliens !

400

Which one is that?  

Now the thing about the anti-drone rig is cost... How much do You think it would cost? Does it makes sense cost wise to use this thing on a simple APC? Maybe on a MBT could be justified the cost but how resistance can You make it to Say shrapnel or anti-material rifles? 

The idea sounds wonderful, the only problem I see is the cost/value ratio compared to the thing it is going to protect.

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27 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Well, if we're too far off-topic, then perhaps creating a separate topic and moving our posts there would be best?

Stranger things have happened.

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33 minutes ago, Arcus_Aesopi said:

I want one....

You want a blue digital camo uniform?  Or one of the other items mentioned?  🙂 

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20 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Which one is that?  

Now the thing about the anti-drone rig is cost... How much do You think it would cost? Does it makes sense cost wise to use this thing on a simple APC? Maybe on a MBT could be justified the cost but how resistance can You make it to Say shrapnel or anti-material rifles? 

The idea sounds wonderful, the only problem I see is the cost/value ratio compared to the thing it is going to protect.

Oh Kay,   I'm not sure discussing cost will work.  I've done huge proposals and they take months to ferret out the "real cost" of new technologies....  DoD proposals are nightmares to navigate.... 

I actually wrote several paragraphs, in detail,  how I would actually build the prototype and.........several NDA's get in the way.  Sorry. 

It'd take 6 months to source and build a prototype if I were to guess.  Depending on how we'd appropriate the necessary base unit, a CNC 3 or 5 axis, robotic armed, tooling system and the weapon costs !   a VEPR (which would be easier because it already is "drum ready") would be ideal.

image.jpeg.45ecf85a053e3cd4db658aa9e57a4e57.jpeg  here is a sample from ArmsList. (< has a 85% recoil reduction muzzle brake on this sample....)

The software already exists.  Mounting and aiming platforms already exist.  Mounting hardware is not all that complicated.

And a Laptop:

image.thumb.png.cee34e81dae9956c9c0bda22c9092958.png   Hmmm?  Did the movie people make this up or.......

this concept has been around for a long time !

image.png.0866a115a67590ba9c6d31d0e612cce1.png

same thing, vastly smaller, with a shotgun !

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19 minutes ago, Asym said:

Oh Kay,   I'm not sure discussing cost will work.  I've done huge proposals and they take months to ferret out the "real cost" of new technologies....  DoD proposals are nightmares to navigate.... 

I actually wrote several paragraphs, in detail,  how I would actually build the prototype and.........several NDA's get in the way.  Sorry. 

It'd take 6 months to source and build a prototype if I were to guess.  Depending on how we'd appropriate the necessary base unit, a CNC 3 or 5 axis, robotic armed, tooling system and the weapon costs !   a VEPR (which would be easier because it already is "drum ready") would be ideal.

image.jpeg.45ecf85a053e3cd4db658aa9e57a4e57.jpeg  here is a sample from ArmsList. (< has a 85% recoil reduction muzzle brake on this sample....)

The software already exists.  Mounting and aiming platforms already exist.  Mounting hardware is not all that complicated.

And a Laptop:

image.thumb.png.cee34e81dae9956c9c0bda22c9092958.png   Hmmm?  Did the movie people make this up or.......

this concept has been around for a long time !

image.png.0866a115a67590ba9c6d31d0e612cce1.png

same thing, vastly smaller, with a shotgun !

For anti drone < 5 or 6 units at a time, a shotgun approach would work at a good price.  Need a decent, but not insane rate of fire... slightly longer barrel(s)?  It would still be a close in weapons system < 50 yards probably with a single or rotary barrel shotgun 🙂 

I'd also think a "claymore" type small pellet (.22?) approach would work...  drones can be very fast, but not too fast to track.

Of course a precision multimillion dollar weapon on the operator's head would work as well...

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4xunub.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=e05fd4ad78896d 
"It costs the U.S. Government 2 cents to make a penny.  That's Government waste for you."

Quote from the movie "Independence Day" (1996)

Quote
  • President Thomas Whitmore: I don't understand, where does all this come from? How do you get funding for something like this?
  • Julius Levinson: You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu
 

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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3 hours ago, Arcus_Aesopi said:

drones can be very fast, but not too fast to track.

Drones can be amazingly fast and maneuverable, too fast for anyone, even an Olympic trap shooter, to hit (trap targets only fly at around 60 mph). The Peregreen 2 drone can reach 180 mph in two seconds and has a top speed of 300 mph. Pretty soon, humans won't be able to go anywhere near a battlefield -- it will be a no-man's land of AI-controlled drones fighting each other while humans cower in bunkers. Battery power is limited but drones can be deployed from solar-powered drone swarm carriers or missiles too. Also, an area can be seeded with drone mines. There is some amazing drone tech that can be watched on YouTube. What's even more amazing is it's all decade-old, de-classified tech.

Edited by Snargfargle
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23 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Drones can be amazingly fast and maneuverable, too fast for anyone, even an Olympic trap shooter, to hit (trap targets only fly at around 60 mph). The Peregreen 2 drone can reach 180 mph in two seconds and has a top speed of 300 mph.

That's a 'sport' drone. Most commercial drones (those are the most common so far on Ucraine) move much slower, well within Eye mk 1 threshold. 

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