kriegerfaust Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) Alpha The current meta of the game is a large number of light guns 3-6 inch with heavy rates of fire to overcome a relatively low rate of accuracy. What about a type of ship with a smaller number of medium more accurate guns 7-9 inch. I know the European meme battleship with all eight-inch twin secondaries that's not what i am going for. single/double turret medium scale guns with good placement so that have a clear arc of fire perhaps high up behind the main turrets where a lot of triple six-inch secondaries are being placed. That is where a ship has triple secondary light guns you would have double mediums and where they would have double light guns you would have single medium. Perhaps this would break the game, but rate of fire and penetration and range can always be juggled. It would also be less of a gimmick and might staunch the flow of torpedo armed everything, what next carriers with torpedo tubes. (And i still want my Lexington carrier with 8-inch guns) Beta During the cold war the us army considered a tank with armor that used the fuel tank as additional. Crazy right fuel burns we see burning ships all the time and that can happen but is not as easy as you think. The Israelis place the tank engine in front another example of using a vital piece of equipment as protection. Combining fuel armor with the Italian cylindrical torpedo bule could create an interesting defensive skill. Such a system could soke up a lot of torpedo damage how it would work who know. Gama Ablative foam/ceramic armor could be fun using it you could say cover turrets making them harder to disable. Taking hits would mitigate damage and slowly be worn away and can possibly be replaced. it would also look cool seeing like scales over parts of the ship. not that serious with any of my ideas just some fun thoughts about adding defensive options. Edited January 21 by kriegerfaust 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, kriegerfaust said: Gama Ablative foam/ceramic armor could be fun using it you could say cover turrets making them harder to disable. Taking hits would mitigate damage and slowly be worn away and can possibly be replaced. it would also look cool seeing like scales over parts of the ship. not that serious with any of my ideas just some fun thoughts about adding defensive options. Armored Turrets on the Iowa Class Battleships Edited to add: Shinano turret armor test. Edited January 21 by Wolfswetpaws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) Mechanical energy versus Chemical energy. Today. It is almost impossible to reproduce the BB's of past. Nor, would there be a reason to do so. The oceans today simply are dominated by Subs and Missiles. The only way to survive an impact is not to have an impact. That means, using Energy to counter Energy. If the missile, round , beam or stream can't get to you, it can't hurt you. Take the shells used above. They were all made of "conductive materials". What repels conductive materials.......? What repels light or other Energies ? What repeals intense and focused chemical energy....? And, considering that several energies can be combined into a single projectile, how can we combine them to ultimately defend against them>?? Water really screws up several of those energies. High tech Ceramics ate right there too.... Magnetic field can mess with conductive materials... And, I suppose, plasma spheres would deter others.... AS the saying goes: "what can be seen can be hit. And, what can be hit can be killed....." So..........if you can't target the target.... Edited January 21 by Asym 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 What Wolfie? Why the confused icon>? Looking for serious answers or....? Lorica Sermentata. The way of the future is found in the past.........as usual. Banded Armor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, Asym said: Mechanical energy versus Chemical energy. Today. It is almost impossible to reproduce the BB's of past. Nor, would there be a reason to do so. The oceans today simply are dominated by Subs and Missiles. The only way to survive an impact is not to have an impact. That means, using Energy to counter Energy. If the missile, round , beam or stream can't get to you, it can't hurt you. Take the shells used above. They were all made of "conductive materials". What repels conductive materials.......? What repels light or other Energies ? What repeals intense and focused chemical energy....? And, considering that several energies can be combined into a single projectile, how can we combine them to ultimately defend against them>?? Water really screws up several of those energies. High tech Ceramics ate right there too.... Magnetic field can mess with conductive materials... And, I suppose, plasma spheres would deter others.... AS the saying goes: "what can be seen can be hit. And, what can be hit can be killed....." So..........if you can't target the target.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Asym said: What Wolfie? Why the confused icon>? Looking for serious answers or....? Lorica Sermentata. The way of the future is found in the past.........as usual. Banded Armor. I honestly thought you were trying to hint at a shield conprised entirely of magnetic force which would be capable of stopping a battleship projectile or a super-fast kinetic missile. The power requirements would be enormous and I'm not sure we have the materials technology which can fabricate components able to endure that amount of power. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriegerfaust Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Ok i got spanked adding more armor would either simply weigh the ship down or flip it over and any ship would already have as much armor as possible, its not like a tank that can add on or peel of armor as design demands, but i will continue with crazy ideas until i hit on another and mark my words SAP bombs are coming.....coming 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe_trueno Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Asym said: Mechanical energy versus Chemical energy. Today. It is almost impossible to reproduce the BB's of past. Nor, would there be a reason to do so. The oceans today simply are dominated by Subs and Missiles. The only way to survive an impact is not to have an impact. That means, using Energy to counter Energy. If the missile, round , beam or stream can't get to you, it can't hurt you. Take the shells used above. They were all made of "conductive materials". What repels conductive materials.......? What repels light or other Energies ? What repeals intense and focused chemical energy....? And, considering that several energies can be combined into a single projectile, how can we combine them to ultimately defend against them>?? Water really screws up several of those energies. High tech Ceramics ate right there too.... Magnetic field can mess with conductive materials... And, I suppose, plasma spheres would deter others.... AS the saying goes: "what can be seen can be hit. And, what can be hit can be killed....." So..........if you can't target the target.... 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I honestly thought you were trying to hint at a shield conprised entirely of magnetic force which would be capable of stopping a battleship projectile or a super-fast kinetic missile. The power requirements would be enormous and I'm not sure we have the materials technology which can fabricate components able to endure that amount of power. 🙂 wonder when can we get non newtonian fluid armor😁 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, kriegerfaust said: Ok i got spanked adding more armor would either simply weigh the ship down or flip it over and any ship would already have as much armor as possible, its not like a tank that can add on or peel of armor as design demands, but i will continue with crazy ideas until i hit on another and mark my words SAP bombs are coming.....coming Well, as far as crazy ideas go... I don't think anyone's ever tried spaced armor on ships. Or if they have, I've never heard of such. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 6 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Well, as far as crazy ideas go... I don't think anyone's ever tried spaced armor on ships. Or if they have, I've never heard of such. Poke a hole (near the waterline) in the outer layer of the spaced-armor scheme and water may flood into the hole. Then one might hope that the armor scheme has a lot of compartments to contain the flooding and that they don't leak. Torpedo protection systems come to mind. Also the deck-armor in conjunction with the citadel armor is often a variation of the spaced-armor concept, I feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 13 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said: wonder when can we get non newtonian fluid armor😁 Apparently, it's been created? Quote Liquid Armour Is Now a Thing, And It Stops Bullets Better Than Kevlar 10 April 2015 ByFIONA MACDONALD https://www.sciencealert.com/liquid-armour-is-now-a-thing-and-it-stops-bullets-better-than-kevlar 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 22 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Apparently, it's been created? Won't it get diluted in water? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: I honestly thought you were trying to hint at a shield conprised entirely of magnetic force which would be capable of stopping a battleship projectile or a super-fast kinetic missile. The power requirements would be enormous and I'm not sure we have the materials technology which can fabricate components able to endure that amount of power. 🙂 Why Lorica Segmentata? Because, it is layered, banded armor.... Layering of materials that individually aren't sufficient; but, together "erode the energy" an incoming weapon uses to destroy you. Coin or leaf armor does the same thing. Layered, lacquered Bamboo and steel lined, banded plates (that resembles Segmentata) was almost impervious to pointed weapons.... So, let's play make-believe: layers of shuttle ceramics that includes diamond dust substrates; super dense metals in alternating layers of Titanium, with a inside core of layers of Titanium screening and super dense fire proof materials and a Kevlar fragment screen. The outside coated in what the German's did with Zimmerit that is a textured, anti-reflective and absorbed rubber like material.... All of which that are not rigid and are actually, moveable layers of armor applied to a fix frame that is designed to absorb kinetic energy.... How's that for make believe? Edited January 21 by Asym 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDG44_Vet Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I hope DARPA is working on your idea @Asym! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just now, DDG44_Vet said: I hope DARPA is working on your idea @Asym! They can't afford me.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, DDG44_Vet said: I hope DARPA is working on your idea @Asym! Heck, when I was younger, we suggested a replacement for the M551, especially after working with the 4-68th Armor in the 80's.... The Armor Center at that time was asking for input/ideas informally from the Field and a group of us took them to the LST building at Fort Know, which I posted a picture of in this Forum, so that there's isn't any disbelief; and, of one of the MBT-70 that was stored there. Which, was 30 years ahead of it's time.... With the changes we suggested: a 50mm auto cannon was it's main weapon (which we are seeing now ! Gee, I wonder why>?), an anti-missile/drone xm-214 in the original 20mm auto cannon module equipped with AMD sensors and autonomous targeting; VR driving for the driver in his/her/their separate station in the turret; and, an armored double stack ATM and AA missile containers/modules where the bustle rack was... Same type of simple Diesel engine and a modern, computer controlled hydro-pneumatic suspension system. With a composite, layered armor vis-a'-vis solid steel (10 tons lighter...) This was a very small, fast and low profile because the HPS could be lowered to allow the hull to sit on the ground.... Under 9 feet tall.... I think talking to the Tank gun exercising wall would have been easier.... See the crap we have now? Thirty plus years later..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Asym said: Why Lorica Segmentata? Because, it is layered, banded armor.... Layering of materials that individually aren't sufficient; but, together "erode the energy" an incoming weapon uses to destroy you. Coin or leaf armor does the same thing. Layered, lacquered Bamboo and steel lined, banded plates (that resembles Segmentata) was almost impervious to pointed weapons.... So, let's play make-believe: layers of shuttle ceramics that includes diamond dust substrates; super dense metals in alternating layers of Titanium, with a inside core of layers of Titanium screening and super dense fire proof materials and a Kevlar fragment screen. The outside coated in what the German's did with Zimmerit that is a textured, anti-reflective and absorbed rubber like material.... All of which that are not rigid and are actually, moveable layers of armor applied to a fix frame that is designed to absorb kinetic energy.... How's that for make believe? 1 hour ago, DDG44_Vet said: I hope DARPA is working on your idea @Asym! 1 hour ago, Asym said: They can't afford me.... I'm not sure they can afford your armor "recipe", either. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 47 minutes ago, Asym said: Heck, when I was younger, we suggested a replacement for the M551, especially after working with the 4-68th Armor in the 80's.... The Armor Center at that time was asking for input/ideas informally from the Field and a group of us took them to the LST building at Fort Know, which I posted a picture of in this Forum, so that there's isn't any disbelief; and, of one of the MBT-70 that was stored there. Which, was 30 years ahead of it's time.... With the changes we suggested: a 50mm auto cannon was it's main weapon (which we are seeing now ! Gee, I wonder why>?), an anti-missile/drone xm-214 in the original 20mm auto cannon module equipped with AMD sensors and autonomous targeting; VR driving for the driver in his/her/their separate station in the turret; and, an armored double stack ATM and AA missile containers/modules where the bustle rack was... Same type of simple Diesel engine and a modern, computer controlled hydro-pneumatic suspension system. With a composite, layered armor vis-a'-vis solid steel (10 tons lighter...) This was a very small, fast and low profile because the HPS could be lowered to allow the hull to sit on the ground.... Under 9 feet tall.... I think talking to the Tank gun exercising wall would have been easier.... See the crap we have now? Thirty plus years later..... Drones, low cost in comparison, used to overwhelm the tanks deployed in a current European theater of conflct. First Person View drones are eclipsing artillery usage in Xxxxxxx. https://youtu.be/IF3xiCSeqno?si=8e4N64LghAztdBW- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Drones, low cost in comparison, used to overwhelm the tanks deployed in a current European theater of conflct. First Person View drones are eclipsing artillery usage in Xxxxxxx. https://youtu.be/IF3xiCSeqno?si=8e4N64LghAztdBW- Ergo, the XM-214 with a lot of ammo storage that was for 20mm ! Like 10x as much. And, completely automatic. Similar to Trophy but, not the same. The XM-214 is also controllable and can be used by any of the crew members as well. They all have VR helmets.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 17 minutes ago, Asym said: Ergo, the XM-214 with a lot of ammo storage that was for 20mm ! Like 10x as much. And, completely automatic. Similar to Trophy but, not the same. The XM-214 is also controllable and can be used by any of the crew members as well. They all have VR helmets.... Which is wonderful, to help the crew use the tank to fight the threats that they can percieve. Until the opposition figures out a way to blind or circumvent the high-tech perception capability, or simply out-percieve the tank and hit it with ordnance from ouside the tank's effective range? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Which is wonderful, to help the crew use the tank to fight the threats that they can percieve. Until the opposition figures out a way to blind or circumvent the high-tech perception capability, or simply out-percieve the tank and hit it with ordnance from ouside the tank's effective range? They already have. HVM's and HVKEW already exist and can not be stopped as I envision my xm-214 defense system. It's for the common place, Infantry anti-armor weapons. Even hand dropped munitions from roofs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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