Conundrum, underwater one of course

[coolrunings_99]

First a big and warm hello to all, just an occasional poster and refugee from old wows forums here.

Spurred by recent discussions, on randomness of randoms and weegee s outlook on things ehem, random🙃 here s a conundrum, an underwater one of course😁.

CVs I can/could handle, never played wows before rework.

This I cannot even with hindsights wisdom.

I sprint with Kita, engine boost, near a flank cap considering I ll outrun (my common sense mistake) the red sub, to contest the cap. Yeah U 4501, the wows official underwater Scarab speedboat. Now here s where the fun starts..not spoted, not detected but I suspect minimap spotted by underwater speed champion dildos hydrofone-pinged and loaded with torps, while trying to jiggle, dodge, whatever hocus pocus mallarkey one could muster, only to be greeted by another widespread set of homers and ingloriously sunk. Whats wrong with this is the fact that only dildos can spot you in this game, without you knowing so. And only dildos in this game get xp calculated well for lack of a better word, randomly with a chocolate twist😉.

Which is disgusting, on both counts.

Sure one can counter the first, by surrendering your life to the game and thinking all things thru at twice the speed of light, and play chess with ships. Thanks, as @Kalishnikat has so aptly put it recently, where s the fun in that, extracting square roots from every second of the game😉.

Got nuff of that, and its rightly called a job.

Slowly regressing to PvE, and playing waay less than usual, is merely a “random’ consequence of ‘unfairness institutionalized’.

Nevermind me, but if its a trend, exodus from randoms and randomness should not be great for weegee at least.

What do you ladies and gents think, and once again a big hello to all of you🤟

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

@coolrunings_99 Welcome aboard!

[Verytis]

Can I request a translated version? All I understood was part describing how it required too much thinking.

[I_cant_Swim_]

Howdy, and welcome to the forum! Subs are indeed causing a rethink of playing styles. I would venture to say, imo ofc, that there may never have been such a disruptive addition to the game, in my time at least. They can be dealt with, but there’ll be knuckle-rapping learning to be had first. The trouble, though, is that not everyone has the time or inclination to get behind the desk again to chew on pencil ends, for an arcade game.

Interestingly i find subs in PvE more disruptive than in PvP,  but ymmv. Anyway, there IS light on the horizon: first, some folks seem to have intuitively grasped the concept of dealing with subs, and as they are on DevStrike! I hope they will continue to help the rest of us through our travails. Second, we will be setting up a training center to help with various aspects of the game, and subs should be one of them. 

[ArIskandir]

3 hours ago, coolrunings_99 said:

First a big and warm hello to all, just an occasional poster and refugee from old wows forums here.

Spurred by recent discussions, on randomness of randoms and weegee s outlook on things ehem, random🙃 here s a conundrum, an underwater one of course😁.

CVs I can/could handle, never played wows before rework.

This I cannot even with hindsights wisdom.

I sprint with Kita, engine boost, near a flank cap considering I ll outrun (my common sense mistake) the red sub, to contest the cap. Yeah U 4501, the wows official underwater Scarab speedboat. Now here s where the fun starts..not spoted, not detected but I suspect minimap spotted by underwater speed champion dildos hydrofone-pinged and loaded with torps, while trying to jiggle, dodge, whatever hocus pocus mallarkey one could muster, only to be greeted by another widespread set of homers and ingloriously sunk. Whats wrong with this is the fact that only dildos can spot you in this game, without you knowing so. And only dildos in this game get xp calculated well for lack of a better word, randomly with a chocolate twist😉.

Which is disgusting, on both counts.

Sure one can counter the first, by surrendering your life to the game and thinking all things thru at twice the speed of light, and play chess with ships. Thanks, as @Kalishnikat has so aptly put it recently, where s the fun in that, extracting square roots from every second of the game😉.

Got nuff of that, and its rightly called a job.

Slowly regressing to PvE, and playing waay less than usual, is merely a “random’ consequence of ‘unfairness institutionalized’.

Nevermind me, but if its a trend, exodus from randoms and randomness should not be great for weegee at least.

What do you ladies and gents think, and once again a big hello to all of you🤟

 

Welcome to Devstrike! I like your style man, you're funny!  

Still I'm not sure what's your conundrum... To PvP or to PvE? That's up to you my man and no one else, whatever you enjoy is fine.  If you don't enjoy the current Random scene play then play the modes you enjoy, that's the best feedback you can send to WG. 

 

 

[Asym]

9 minutes ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

Howdy, and welcome to the forum! Subs are indeed causing a rethink of playing styles. I would venture to say, imo ofc, that there may never have been such a disruptive addition to the game, in my time at least. They can be dealt with, but there’ll be knuckle-rapping learning to be had first. The trouble, though, is that not everyone has the time or inclination to get behind the desk again to chew on pencil ends, for an arcade game.

Interestingly i find subs in PvE more disruptive than in PvP,  but ymmv. Anyway, there IS light on the horizon: first, some folks seem to have intuitively grasped the concept of dealing with subs, and as they are on DevStrike! I hope they will continue to help the rest of us through our travails. Second, we will be setting up a training center to help with various aspects of the game, and subs should be one of them. 

A word of advice:  you can't mitigate a dissimilar weapons system without upsetting the meta to the point, said weapons system doesn't have the meta value it needs to sell.  And selling outweighs common sense.

Our host has taken the gimmick path since the Cruiser Line Split and Update 8.0 (Radar and Carriers) and the game has changed negatively since then.  Doubt this?  Then answer one simple question:  why are neither dissimilar weapons systems in KOTS????    Because, the KOTS crew would quit.......just like the rest of us quit PVP.

This is a binary, cultural adaptive friction rejection of intent that only ends one way:  EXODUS.  As thousands of us have done and gone into PVE or uninstalled.  You can't mitigate Adaptive Friction mate........it doesn't work that way.  But, what do I know, eh???

[Admiral_Karasu]

My solution too, has been to virtually abandon all PvP and move into PvE, almost exclusively. While I do like the PvE, the operations and the idea of the Asymmetric Battles we are currently having, not being able to 'enjoy' the PvP detracts from the overall value of the game for me.

[coolrunings_99]

Thanks to all for a kind welcome🤟

The point being, I liked solo randoms, and cause of ‘unfairness institutionalized’ way of adding dildos cant stand it no more and am playing way less in general.

No entitlement or ‘ugh ugh me soo genius all others bad’ issues here, just cant stand the fact dildo spots you without you knowing it, and gets heavenly augmented bxp earnings for doing not much than an online version of molesting kittens’n’puppies in real life. The good dildo main that is, the bad ones can still do it, even if only by accident😁.

How would one get to such a conclusion is beyond me, but kinda think that if dildos were implemented fair and square, no one could😁

The change in meta could be measured in wegees attempts to lure back folks to randoms/pvp environments with combat missions requiring pvp modes to complete them.

Talk about starting from - the end instead from the beggining😘😁

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, coolrunings_99 said:

What do you ladies and gents think, and once again a big hello to all of you🤟

Welcome to DevStrike.

I think you'll enjoy Asymmetric Battles, because the 'Bot team does not have Submarines (but may have a CV).

[Wolfswetpaws]

17 minutes ago, coolrunings_99 said:

Thanks to all for a kind welcome🤟

The point being, I liked solo randoms, and cause of ‘unfairness institutionalized’ way of adding dildos cant stand it no more and am playing way less in general.

No entitlement or ‘ugh ugh me soo genius all others bad’ issues here, just cant stand the fact dildo spots you without you knowing it, and gets heavenly augmented bxp earnings for doing not much than an online version of molesting kittens’n’puppies in real life. The good dildo main that is, the bad ones can still do it, even if only by accident😁.

How would one get to such a conclusion is beyond me, but kinda think that if dildos were implemented fair and square, no one could😁

The change in meta could be measured in wegees attempts to lure back folks to randoms/pvp environments with combat missions requiring pvp modes to complete them.

Talk about starting from - the end instead from the beggining😘😁

Might be time to make some popcorn and "chew some pencils" in @I_cant_Swim_ style.  😉 
Seriously, though, this video is worth watching.

Comprehensive Submarine Guide (And Fighting them) in World of Warships

  
Knowledge is power.  🙂 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Jakob Knight]

17 minutes ago, coolrunings_99 said:

Thanks to all for a kind welcome🤟

The point being, I liked solo randoms, and cause of ‘unfairness institutionalized’ way of adding dildos cant stand it no more and am playing way less in general.

No entitlement or ‘ugh ugh me soo genius all others bad’ issues here, just cant stand the fact dildo spots you without you knowing it, and gets heavenly augmented bxp earnings for doing not much than an online version of molesting kittens’n’puppies in real life. The good dildo main that is, the bad ones can still do it, even if only by accident😁.

How would one get to such a conclusion is beyond me, but kinda think that if dildos were implemented fair and square, no one could😁

The change in meta could be measured in wegees attempts to lure back folks to randoms/pvp environments with combat missions requiring pvp modes to complete them.

Talk about starting from - the end instead from the beggining😘😁

 

Well, it seems you're playing at the T10 level, where all of the ships have power levels where you have to really know how to face them or you'll pay the price.  The 4501, for instance, only runs fast fully submerged (not at periscope depth or surfaced, where it's the slowest T10 in the game), and only has homing torpedoes that can't reach beyond 10 km.  She does have three sets of torpedo tubes, so when you see one group, you know you can expect two others will be following.  The plus side is that the groups are small.

 

That was all said to illustrate that you might want to drop down to T7, where all you will face Sub-wise are T6 and T8 Subs, and get experience in dealing with them there before moving back to T10.  Yes, Subs can get a snapshot of surface units within 6-9 km using their consumable, but that is a snapshot detection, so keep evasive and if you are tagged, remember you can throw off the course of the torpedoes with a DD, or use your DCP to force a lock loss if you are in a bad position for that.  Also, work with your own Sub to spot and sink them...don't solo a Sub if you can help it (you're making their job easier if you do), and remember Subs start closer to objectives and the enemy than you do.

 

Hope this helps!

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

9 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Well, it seems you're playing at the T10 level, where all of the ships have power levels where you have to really know how to face them or you'll pay the price.  The 4501, for instance, only runs fast fully submerged (not at periscope depth or surfaced, where it's the slowest T10 in the game), and only has homing torpedoes that can't reach beyond 10 km.  She does have three sets of torpedo tubes, so when you see one group, you know you can expect two others will be following.  The plus side is that the groups are small.

 

That was all said to illustrate that you might want to drop down to T7, where all you will face Sub-wise are T6 and T8 Subs, and get experience in dealing with them there before moving back to T10.  Yes, Subs can get a snapshot of surface units within 6-9 km using their consumable, but that is a snapshot detection, so keep evasive and if you are tagged, remember you can throw off the course of the torpedoes with a DD, or use your DCP to force a lock loss if you are in a bad position for that.  Also, work with your own Sub to spot and sink them...don't solo a Sub if you can help it (you're making their job easier if you do), and remember Subs start closer to objectives and the enemy than you do.

 

Hope this helps!

 

'Only 10 km homing torps'?

Generally, I'd agree that the mid tiers are the sweet spot to be unless you want the added level of challenge that the high tiers bring, but the sub problem, IMO, is the same on the mid tiers as well unless it can be said that most competent sub players will move onto the high tiers.

[tocqueville8]

Just now, Admiral_Karasu said:

'Only 10 km homing torps'?

Frankly, the homing isn't even all that important in a lot of cases. While the alpha of each torp is low, the 3+3 at the back are often enough to Dev Strike DDs and cruisers if one approaches them correctly.

In those cases, the main advantage of the homing torps is the much shorter arming distance. Still, the U-4501 is so slow when maneuvering that a determined enemy can close in fast enough to null the torps (good ole Marko Ramius...) and teabag it.

Edited December 5, 2023 by tocqueville8

[Asym]

27 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Might be time to make some popcorn and "chew some pencils" in @I_cant_Swim_ style.  😉 
Seriously, though, this video is worth watching.

Comprehensive Submarine Guide (And Fighting them) in World of Warships

  
Knowledge is power.  🙂 

Knowledge is power.....the power to leave or avoid modes that encourages the use of dissimilar weapons, that I might add, are "forced on us" as bots.....  To do what?  Make the mode better????  No, to lessen the value earned........always, to lessen our earning or fun. 

No wonder we have a stalled population.........and, many of us are playing a lot less and not spending like we did.

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

'Only 10 km homing torps'?

Tier-6 Submarines have the same, or better, range (depending upon the specific Submarine).
At Tier-10, there are Submarines with torpedoes which have a range greater than 10 km.

Like tech-tree and premium ships, submarines have capabilities which vary, for national "flavor" and as a trade-off for something else.

[Admiral_Karasu]

3 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Tier-6 Submarines have the same, or better, range (depending upon the specific Submarine).
At Tier-10, there are Submarines with torpedoes which have a range greater than 10 km.

Like tech-tree and premium ships, submarines have capabilities which vary, for national "flavor" and as a trade-off for something else.

Okay, wish at least one nation would have open top subs, and another open bottom ones for 'flavor'.

[Wolfswetpaws]

13 minutes ago, Asym said:

Knowledge is power.....the power to leave or avoid modes that encourages the use of dissimilar weapons, that I might add, are "forced on us" as bots.....  To do what?  Make the mode better????  No, to lessen the value earned........always, to lessen our earning or fun. 

No wonder we have a stalled population.........and, many of us are playing a lot less and not spending like we did.

    


Ripley : Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.

Quote

• Ripley : How long after we're declared overdue can we expect a rescue?

  Corporal Hicks : [pause]  Seventeen days.

  Private Hudson : Seventeen *days*? Hey man, I don't wanna rain on your parade, but we're not gonna last seventeen hours! Those things are gonna come in here just like they did before. And they're gonna come in here...

  Ripley : Hudson!

  Private Hudson : ...and they're gonna come in here AND THEY'RE GONNA GET US!

  Ripley : Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.

  [to Newt] 

  Ripley : Right?

  [Newt apes a salute] 

  Private Hudson : Why don't you put *her* in charge?
  
  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Wolfswetpaws]

14 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Okay, wish at least one nation would have open top subs, and another open bottom ones for 'flavor'.

Italian SLC Human Torpedo of WWII

  
 

[ArIskandir]

59 minutes ago, coolrunings_99 said:

The point being, I liked solo randoms,

I recommend trying Ranked, imo much better environment for solo play. 

1 hour ago, coolrunings_99 said:

just cant stand the fact dildo spots you without you knowing it, and gets heavenly augmented bxp earnings for doing not much

Those are actually 2 very well sustained complains imo. Why the invisible Hydro spot made it past test remains a mystery to me.

[Type_93]

5 hours ago, coolrunings_99 said:

sprint with Kita, engine boost, near a flank cap

Never just sprint into a cap. That’s a recipe for sinking.  Flank outside the cap untill you know what’s likely to on the other side. 

[Asym]

26 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

    


Ripley : Hudson! This little girl survived longer than that with no weapons and no training.

 

Some days, I take offense.  Some days, I simply understand this is a simple arcade shooter and have a laugh.  Some days I simply don't play...  And, some days, I play this clip from a Broadway show that gives me hope.  Because, the character in this song was considered Obnoxious and Disliked and yet.......  History had more to say about what he was insisting on....

"Sit Down John, 1776 and the link isn't working? 

And, I suspect, I am right and you my friend, are wrong......  History repeats itself and, the results are "inevitable..."

Edited December 5, 2023 by Asym

[Wolfswetpaws]

33 minutes ago, Asym said:

the results are "inevitable..."

We all die, eventually, eh?  But how we die?  Will we make such an end that is worthy of song?  🙂 

"We will not go quietly into the night" - Independence Day

  

[Jakob Knight]

55 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

 

Those are actually 2 very well sustained complains imo. Why the invisible Hydro spot made it past test remains a mystery to me.

 

That and why they made Sub vrs Sub so disadvantaged that Subs are virtually forced to ignore each other.  I want to match off against the other Sub driver, and Command keeps telling me I have to go sink those Battleships over there before they'll unlock my sonar gear.

 

 

 

[ArIskandir]

18 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

That and why they made Sub vrs Sub so disadvantaged that Subs are virtually forced to ignore each other.  I want to match off against the other Sub driver, and Command keeps telling me I have to go sink those Battleships over there before they'll unlock my sonar gear.

 

 

 

It is a long stretch but I can understand why they prevented Sub vs Sub at the beginning of the match... I sunk too many red Subs to deny rookie Subs were free food for veterans (otoh, it has always been the way of life for DDs), so there's a slim justification there but the Invisi-Hydro justification is just unfathomable.

[Admiral_Karasu]

24 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

It is a long stretch but I can understand why they prevented Sub vs Sub at the beginning of the match... I sunk too many red Subs to deny rookie Subs were free food for veterans (otoh, it has always been the way of life for DDs), so there's a slim justification there but the Invisi-Hydro justification is just unfathomable.

If you start from the point that subs fit in this game and their implementation is all right, that is.