For pure operation, and co-op. Should I pick Flint or Harbin?

[RomaThePastaBote]

I have permanent retired from Random when the submarines went live, and now only play operation most of the time. I have been wanting a bote that can pop smoke and hold left mouse button for comically relieve. I have tried Chumphon before, but the long reload along with short smoke duration leave me want more, Harbin has good reload, but the same short smoke duration is still there. Then I looked around and only Flint has both what I wanted, but I heard lads said she is not worth it.

So considering price is not a factor, how good is Flint compares to Harbin in terms of gun power? And in credit making scene as well.

[invicta2012]

If you must pop smoke and spam HE then Flint is a good bet (although her gun range is short). But I think in most Ops you will find yourself being unable to keep a static position and will be outrun by all the mobile/heavy DPM cruisers like Mainz and Bayard. You can HE spam in Harbin but that's not playing to her strengths, as much of her DPM is down to that torpedo broadside + TRB - but she is free, so I guess there's no harm in trying?

[RX160S_Byarlant_Custom]

Harbin is a great improvement over Chumphon and a very good option for certain operations, namely Aegis and Newport where she excels against pushing enemies in general. She has great DPM and slightly buffed ballistics which makes it a competent smoke farmer. However what truly makes her shine in operations or co-op is her torpedo suite, with 4 racks of triple tubes alongside a torpedo reload booster which makes it able to chuck out 24 (deepwater) torpedoes in a relatively short period of time. 

Flint has higher DPM, and a longer smoke, but has worse ballistics overall, heavily restrictive range and far less torpedo power. Harbin also has better durability with the heal considered and 16mm rather than 13mm plating, as well as marginally better concealment, but it is the great gun power and heavy torpedo power that truly allows Harbin to excel in operations. Besides, while Flint's smoke is longer-lasting, it has a longer cooldown as well, and 12.4km range is incredibly short, which limits the amount of positions you can take. You will need to position well to get the most out of your smokes, and even so you may struggle to hit at range. Besides 168k coal is a very steep cost for a cruiser that had its balls cut off by the commander rework (and didn't get a range buff like Atlanta did, while still sacrificing DPM and radar for a smoke). 

Harbin is far more comfortable as a smoke cruiser with her relatively strong DPM (range advantage and better ballistics) as well as area denial/burst damage capability with torpedoes, even if her smoke is shorter. The Pan-Asian smoke is also generally considered to be well-rounded in terms of characteristics and is one of the best smoke generators in the game, with a long action time and relatively short cooldown allowing it to be used again after expiry quite soon. Just keep in mind, the Pan-Asian cruiser line also depends on torpedoes to back up their gun power, so its lower DPM does not tell the full story. 

Also in my opinion Chumphon is rather similar to Flint, but is slightly more focused on torpedo power instead of guns, hence her slower reload, torpedo reload booster and slightly better concealment, though she excels in neither department and is thus considered a stinker. If you didn't like Chumphon, I cannot guarantee you'll like Flint. 

As for credit making, if you have a spare T8 Eco Booster, do put it on Harbin. I'm not exactly sure which one makes more credits but you'll definitely perform better in Harbin, as it is easier and stronger overall. T7 Premiums do not make that much money in the first place. 

You may also want to consider Fiji/Edinburgh for a rapid-fire smoke CL, as they are also generally quite strong in operations. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by RX160S_Byarlant_Custom

[Ensign Cthulhu]

5 hours ago, RomaThePastaBote said:

I have tried Chumphon before, but the long reload along with short smoke duration leave me want more, Harbin has good reload, but the same short smoke duration is still there.

Operations are too dynamic for long-duration smoke farming. With the possible exception of Newport, you need to go places and do things.

[Asym]

6 hours ago, RomaThePastaBote said:

I have permanent retired from Random when the submarines went live, and now only play operation most of the time. I have been wanting a bote that can pop smoke and hold left mouse button for comically relieve. I have tried Chumphon before, but the long reload along with short smoke duration leave me want more, Harbin has good reload, but the same short smoke duration is still there. Then I looked around and only Flint has both what I wanted, but I heard lads said she is not worth it.

So considering price is not a factor, how good is Flint compares to Harbin in terms of gun power? And in credit making scene as well.

this

3 hours ago, RX160S_Byarlant_Custom said:

Harbin is a great improvement over Chumphon and a very good option for certain operations, namely Aegis and Newport where she excels against pushing enemies in general. She has great DPM and slightly buffed ballistics which makes it a competent smoke farmer. However what truly makes her shine in operations or co-op is her torpedo suite, with 4 racks of triple tubes alongside a torpedo reload booster which makes it able to chuck out 24 (deepwater) torpedoes in a relatively short period of time. 

Flint has higher DPM, and a longer smoke, but has worse ballistics overall, heavily restrictive range and far less torpedo power. Harbin also has better durability with the heal considered and 16mm rather than 13mm plating, as well as marginally better concealment, but it is the great gun power and heavy torpedo power that truly allows Harbin to excel in operations. Besides, while Flint's smoke is longer-lasting, it has a longer cooldown as well, and 12.4km range is incredibly short, which limits the amount of positions you can take. You will need to position well to get the most out of your smokes, and even so you may struggle to hit at range. Besides 168k coal is a very steep cost for a cruiser that had its balls cut off by the commander rework (and didn't get a range buff like Atlanta did, while still sacrificing DPM and radar for a smoke). 

Harbin is far more comfortable as a smoke cruiser with her relatively strong DPM (range advantage and better ballistics) as well as area denial/burst damage capability with torpedoes, even if her smoke is shorter. The Pan-Asian smoke is also generally considered to be well-rounded in terms of characteristics and is one of the best smoke generators in the game, with a long action time and relatively short cooldown allowing it to be used again after expiry quite soon. Just keep in mind, the Pan-Asian cruiser line also depends on torpedoes to back up their gun power, so its lower DPM does not tell the full story. 

Also in my opinion Chumphon is rather similar to Flint, but is slightly more focused on torpedo power instead of guns, hence her slower reload, torpedo reload booster and slightly better concealment, though she excels in neither department and is thus considered a stinker. If you didn't like Chumphon, I cannot guarantee you'll like Flint. 

As for credit making, if you have a spare T8 Eco Booster, do put it on Harbin. I'm not exactly sure which one makes more credits but you'll definitely perform better in Harbin, as it is easier and stronger overall. T7 Premiums do not make that much money in the first place. 

You may also want to consider Fiji/Edinburgh for a rapid-fire smoke CL, as they are also generally quite strong in operations. 

Personally, I played a lot of Flint and had some very large scoring matches....  But, that's just what I liked. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Both essentially have the same weaknesses, the high shell arcs and poor survivability.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Flint

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Harbin

 

[BOBTHEBALL]

17 hours ago, RomaThePastaBote said:

I have permanent retired from Random when the submarines went live, and now only play operation most of the time. I have been wanting a bote that can pop smoke and hold left mouse button for comically relieve. I have tried Chumphon before, but the long reload along with short smoke duration leave me want more, Harbin has good reload, but the same short smoke duration is still there. Then I looked around and only Flint has both what I wanted, but I heard lads said she is not worth it.

So considering price is not a factor, how good is Flint compares to Harbin in terms of gun power? And in credit making scene as well.

Good question and thankfully there's an incredibly easy answer. It's obviously Harbin! Her guns are very good for OPs and her torpedoes are even better. If you wanted to you could also slap on a tier 8 bonus package to bring in the cash if you decide you like her.

[RomaThePastaBote]

My deepest gratitude for your lads advises, especially @RX160S_Byarlant_Custom for detailed and very insightful breakdown👑

And so it is settled, I will weather some more with Chumphon and waddle my way toward Harbin.

[BOBTHEBALL]

4 hours ago, RomaThePastaBote said:

My deepest gratitude for your lads advises, especially @RX160S_Byarlant_Custom for detailed and very insightful breakdown👑

And so it is settled, I will weather some more with Chumphon and waddle my way toward Harbin.

Trust me in the Pan Asian CL line it only gets better the higher you go. Harbin is ok, Sejong is nice and Jinan is really fun!

[RomaThePastaBote]

21 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Trust me in the Pan Asian CL line it only gets better the higher you go. Harbin is ok, Sejong is nice and Jinan is really fun!

Oh yes, I planned to get the Jinan as well, that rate of fire seems absurd.

[Wolfswetpaws]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:00 AM, RomaThePastaBote said:

I have permanent retired from Random when the submarines went live, and now only play operation most of the time. I have been wanting a bote that can pop smoke and hold left mouse button for comically relieve. I have tried Chumphon before, but the long reload along with short smoke duration leave me want more, Harbin has good reload, but the same short smoke duration is still there. Then I looked around and only Flint has both what I wanted, but I heard lads said she is not worth it.

So considering price is not a factor, how good is Flint compares to Harbin in terms of gun power? And in credit making scene as well.

The Flint is a sister of the Atlanta.
Available in the Armory for coal, she's got longer-range torpedoes than the Atlanta while sharing the same guns.
Atlanta says "pew pew pew" and so will the Flint, by my reckoning.

I'm thinking of welcoming the Flint as my next coal-ship.  I already have the Atlanta. 

I think the Chumphon is a nice tech-tree alternative, albeit with deep-water torpedoes.  I like the Harbin, too.

Hope that helps.  🙂 

[Unlooky]

If price is not a factor, why not get both? One costs XP and credits, and the other costs coal. If they were both coal, this would require more thought, but it seems like both ships would suit what you are looking for in the game. People advise against getting Flint not necessarily because it's bad, but because the higher tier coal ships have much better value for the cost. If they are not a factor, get Flint for coal and grind out Harbin. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Unlooky

[RomaThePastaBote]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:29 PM, Unlooky said:

If price is not a factor, why not get both? One costs XP and credits, and the other costs coal. If they were both coal, this would require more thought, but it seems like both ships would suit what you are looking for in the game. People advise against getting Flint not necessarily because it's bad, but because the higher tier coal ships have much better value for the cost. If they are not a factor, get Flint for coal and grind out Harbin. 

I am running slow on both credit and coal as of now due to buying and fitting out Napoli, and Marseille.😭
But your ideal sound pretty nice as well for long term goal. I will save the coal first and if by then I am not burnt out on smoke-and-gun play style, I will get her for sure.

[BOBTHEBALL]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:59 AM, RomaThePastaBote said:

I am running slow on both credit and coal as of now due to buying and fitting out Napoli, and Marseille.😭
But your ideal sound pretty nice as well for long term goal. I will save the coal first and if by then I am not burnt out on smoke-and-gun play style, I will get her for sure.

Make sure before you spend coal on Flint you get the better coal ships.