Who would like Asym battles as PvP?

[Type_93]

Any form of pve play isn’t fun at all for me. I was just thinking that it might be fun if you got to be the low tier team instead of the high tier team. But then an even better thought, why not throw Asym into the random battle rotation? That to me would be a great battle to play. I’d love to be the low tier team. You’d make tons of rewards for a win against the higher tiers! I know the salt would flow, but to me it would be worth it!

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I'd be down for it.

The game is all about the memes for me and having fun. Maybe market it like the brawls...give the lower tier ships arms race buffs...

All kinds of fun could be had.

[BOBTHEBALL]

It'd be awesome imo and an actual challenge as well!

[SolitudeFreak]

They tried that, and it was a nightmare for matchmaking. And seeing as they just removed Airship Escort from Randoms rotations based on player feedback, I highly doubt putting Asymmetric into Randoms would be successful or see overall positive feedback.

I think the mode is fine as is, as it's a very good instance for PvE players to but their battleships to good use, and to see unusual challenges for their destroyers and cruisers as well.

[That WoT Player]

8 minutes ago, SolitudeFreak said:

They tried that, and it was a nightmare for matchmaking. And seeing as they just removed Airship Escort from Randoms rotations based on player feedback, I highly doubt putting Asymmetric into Randoms would be successful or see overall positive feedback.

I think the mode is fine as is, as it's a very good instance for PvE players to but their battleships to good use, and to see unusual challenges for their destroyers and cruisers as well.

I remember when they did that, too. It felt very awkward, and was severely skewed towards the higher tiered ships. 
 

IIRC, radar and secondary focused ships were the big offenders. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

In order for it to be fun, balancing the numbers is going to have to be more deeply thought out than it was before.

Putting it in randoms is not the way to go. It will just drive toxicity.

[Hugh_Ruka]

No, would be too unbalanced I think ...

[Admiral_Karasu]

@Asym?

[Admiral_Karasu]

5 hours ago, SolitudeFreak said:

They tried that, and it was a nightmare for matchmaking. And seeing as they just removed Airship Escort from Randoms rotations based on player feedback, I highly doubt putting Asymmetric into Randoms would be successful or see overall positive feedback.

I think the mode is fine as is, as it's a very good instance for PvE players to but their battleships to good use, and to see unusual challenges for their destroyers and cruisers as well.

 

5 hours ago, That WoT Player said:

I remember when they did that, too. It felt very awkward, and was severely skewed towards the higher tiered ships. 
 

IIRC, radar and secondary focused ships were the big offenders. 

 

I think the issue was that a significant element of the player base, having been conditioned by WG to always win, always score damage and farm credits and XP as their top priority, 'gravitated' towards always selecting the higher tier ships.

[xamdam]

Nope. As stated, they tried that before and it didn't work. I'm not into PVP anymore so this is a nice change from Operations (don't care for COOP either). I hope it stays as is for a while. It gives me a reason to play A LOT of ships that otherwise rust in port.

[xamdam]

That said, if they offered it up for both PVE and PVP, all the better. Then everyone's happy.

 

[pepe_trueno]

39 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

 

 

I think the issue was that a significant element of the player base, having been conditioned by WG to always win, always score damage and farm credits and XP as their top priority, 'gravitated' towards always selecting the higher tier ships.

if memory does not fail me lower tiers could easily overpower the higher tiers with sheer volume of HE spam and torpedo soup. Problem was that it requires a team effort and we all know random players, no one is going to take the bullet for the team so they scattered or run away leaving the dds alone and once the high tier DDs killed the low tier ones the match become a masacre. 

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

@Asym?

Oh, that's rich !   PVP?  Can you imagine the vitriol, angst and opprobrious commentary that mode would generate in PVP >? 

Oh my, that is rich !!

Let's do it !!!!  Their brains would melt.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Asym

[Ensign Cthulhu]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

having been conditioned by WG to always win, always score damage and farm credits and XP as their top priority,

Don't be too quick to point the finger at WG. Certain unicum CCs with a high social media presence created most of the expectations there, and continue to do so. 

[Nevermore135]

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

I think the issue was that a significant element of the player base, having been conditioned by WG to always win, always score damage and farm credits and XP as their top priority, 'gravitated' towards always selecting the higher tier ships.

I recall the opposite - WG expected there to be a big drive for players to play high tier ships, so much that they locked playing such ships behind a temporary currency that was earned by playing battles in the the lower tier ships. The problem was that players quickly realized that a) it was extremely profitable to farm XP and credits on the lower tier team, especially as the population at higher tiers was such that said team was usually full of bots, and b) the rare 100% PvP game still disproportionally favored the larger, lower-tier team because the outnumbered team needed to play smart and exercise teamwork in order to win (it’s still pretty easy for a poorly played team of higher-tier players to lose to the bots who don’t focus fire and more often than not feed themselves to the players in small groups in the current iteration). The latter only reinforced the former.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

12 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Don't be too quick to point the finger at WG. Certain unicum CCs with a high social media presence created most of the expectations there, and continue to do so. 

Indeed...

Though WG does also lean into this with event designs.

This is the reality of our game culture at the moment. There are a number of sources driving this behavior.

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I recall the opposite - WG expected there to be a a big drive for players to play high tier ships, so much that they locked playing such ships behind a temporary currency that was earned by playing battles in the the lower tier ships. The problem was that players quickly realized that a) it was extremely profitable to farm XP and credits on the lower tier team, especially as the population at higher tiers was such that said team was full of boys, and b) the rare 100% PvP team still disproportionally favored the larger, lower-tier team because the outnumbered team needed to play smart and exercise teamwork in order to win (it’s still pretty easy for a poorly played team of higher-tier players to lose to the bots who don’t focus fire and more often than not feed themselves to the players in small groups in the current iteration). The latter only reinforced the former.

 

That could be it, I don't recall it that well anymore. I don't remember even the temporary currency thing, except for the Grand Battles. In any case, I liked the PvP version of the Asymmetric Battles, as far as I remember at least...

[Nevermore135]

8 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

That could be it, I don't recall it that well anymore. I don't remember even the temporary currency thing, except for the Grand Battles. In any case, I liked the PvP version of the Asymmetric Battles, as far as I remember at least...

WG actually pulled the mode after only a few days because it had devolved into teams of lower-tiered players just farming bots for PVP-level rewards. The outcry from the community for removing the fun, easy-grind PVE (in essence) mode is what prompted the devs to switch focus and further develop the battle type as a dedicated PVE mode.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Asym]

15 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

WG actually pulled the mode after only a few days because it had devolved into teams of lower-tiered players just farming bots for PVP-level rewards. The outcry from the community for removing the fun, easy-grind PVE (in essence) mode is what prompted the devs to switch focus and further develop the battle type as a dedicated PVE mode.

Four days,  if I remember correctly - they must have been short staffed;  because,  the Spreadsheet Alarms were Screaming DANGER Tovolishee, DANGER !!!  PVE players have exceeded earning per match exponentially !!!  DANGER - DANGER !"  IMPLEMENT the EMERGENCY NERF SYSTEM, This is not a TEST>>>DANGER !!!

Four days.  I wonder who got fired?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Asym

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

I recall the opposite - WG expected there to be a big drive for players to play high tier ships, so much that they locked playing such ships behind a temporary currency that was earned by playing battles in the the lower tier ships. The problem was that players quickly realized that a) it was extremely profitable to farm XP and credits on the lower tier team, especially as the population at higher tiers was such that said team was usually full of bots, and b) the rare 100% PvP game still disproportionally favored the larger, lower-tier team because the outnumbered team needed to play smart and exercise teamwork in order to win (it’s still pretty easy for a poorly played team of higher-tier players to lose to the bots who don’t focus fire and more often than not feed themselves to the players in small groups in the current iteration). The latter only reinforced the former.

 

Yup, I remember how the first day everyone was like "Lol, low tiers have no chance!"... a couple days later the high tier team was always packed with bots because most players were farming as low tiers!

Imo what really killed the mode was having bots mixed up with players... for a PvP mode to work you need to guarantee a leveled playing field. Having your team packed with bots while the enemy has full humans is unworkable.

[Nevermore135]

28 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Imo what really killed the mode was having bots mixed up with players... for a PvP mode to work you need to guarantee a leveled playing field. Having your team packed with bots while the enemy has full humans is unworkable.

Keep in mind that the current iteration not only had to put bots on the low-tier team to make the mode viable, but also dumbed down the bot AI (target selection) in the most recent iteration.

All other things being equal, the low-tier team was at a marked advantage in the original PVP iteration. WG locking high tiers behind a temp currency paywall only exaggerated the issues that would have arisen with the MM. Without the bots the queue times would have been much longer, but I don’t think it would have fundamentally changed the outcome (players flocking to the lower tiers).

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Wolfswetpaws]

11 hours ago, Type_93 said:

Any form of pve play isn’t fun at all for me. I was just thinking that it might be fun if you got to be the low tier team instead of the high tier team. But then an even better thought, why not throw Asym into the random battle rotation? That to me would be a great battle to play. I’d love to be the low tier team. You’d make tons of rewards for a win against the higher tiers! I know the salt would flow, but to me it would be worth it!

I imagine you know that player-versus-player Asmmetric battles has been done before.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Justin_Simpleton]

Yeah, I remember the asymmetric battles.  I had no clue what was going on.  It wasn't particularly fun and I didn't understand the long term aspect of trying to earn credits and such by playing certain tiers.  Okay, now I understand.

[Type_93]

21 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I imagine you know that player-versus-player Asmmetric battles has been done before.

 

Shows how few brain cells I have left! I’ve been playing since open beta and forgot about them. But it still stands that they’d be fun as a pvp mode again! I’m sure it would have Que problems but so does ranked a lot of the time. Ranked asymmetric battles! Could you imagine?  

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

20 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

Shows how few brain cells I have left! I’ve been playing since open beta and forgot about them. But it still stands that they’d be fun as a pvp mode again! I’m sure it would have Que problems but so does ranked a lot of the time. Ranked asymmetric battles! Could you imagine?  

I'm thinking for it to meet both WG goals and player goals, the format would need to be tweaked.