WoWs players need to drop the victim mentality

[Unlooky]

Of all the player types I have encounter on WoWs, by far the largest and most obnoxious both in game and online (yes, including here) are the subpar players who are determined that everything is the fault of WG and RNG, Rigged matchmaking, unbalanced ships, bad teammates, or P2W make them unable to play the game at an adequate level. I'm not here to claim WoWs is a remotely balanced game (a laughable statement) but the constant bellyaching and whining in game chat or in online spaces is extremely old. 

Players need to take accountability over what they can control. Being double uptiered isn't an excuse to be dead within the first 4 minutes of a match. A premium ship does not automatically grant the owner the positioning, gamesense, and aim to bring out it's full potential. Even if they did, what are you going to do about it? You don't have any control over what other players spend with their money, and you can't stop yourself from being uptiered. How does whining about these occurrences help anyone? WG sure as hell isn't going to change the game or their monetization scheme just because someone made a rage post on reddit. 

It's far more productive to focus on one you could have done specifically. Nobody plays a perfect game unless you're John_The_Ruthless farming Colbert PR. I'll watch my own replays from time to time and notice glaring mistakes that I made in hindsight. Finding these mistakes and correcting them is much more productive and useful than making another venting thread. In my experience with the WoWs community primarily through Discord, Reddit, and now here, there is a disposition towards crying about the game in lieu of player skill. There are most certainly issues that impact the experience in game, but the overall game experience CAN ABSOLUTELY be better for anyone if they were to try to avoid blaming things outside of their control.     

There are many legitimate issues with this game which lose credibility when bad players see good players complaining about them (Subs, CVs) and use them as cop outs to avoid actually improving themselves. I think this game's playerbase has the biggest victim complex out of any PvP game that I've played. The amount of people who unironically think WG rigs matchmaking is frightening. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

[BOBTHEBALL]

13 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Of all the player types I have encounter on WoWs, by far the largest and most obnoxious both in game and online (yes, including here) are the subpar players who are determined that everything is the fault of WG and RNG, Rigged matchmaking, unbalanced ships, bad teammates, or P2W make them unable to play the game at an adequate level. I'm not here to claim WoWs is a remotely balanced game (a laughable statement) but the constant bellyaching and whining in game chat or in online spaces is extremely old. 

Players need to take accountability over what they can control. Being double uptiered isn't an excuse to be dead within the first 4 minutes of a match. A premium ship does not automatically grant the owner the positioning, gamesense, and aim to bring out it's full potential. Even if they did, what are you going to do about it? You don't have any control over what other players spend with their money, and you can't stop yourself from being uptiered. How does whining about these occurrences help anyone? WG sure as hell isn't going to change the game or their monetization scheme just because someone made a rage post on reddit. 

It's far more productive to focus on one you could have done specifically. Nobody plays a perfect game unless you're John_The_Ruthless farming Colbert PR. I'll watch my own replays from time to time and notice glaring mistakes that I made in hindsight. Finding these mistakes and correcting them is much more productive and useful than making another venting thread. In my experience with the WoWs community primarily through Discord, Reddit, and now here, there is a disposition towards crying about the game in lieu of player skill. There are most certainly issues that impact the experience in game, but the overall game experience CAN ABSOLUTELY be better for anyone if they were to try to avoid blaming things outside of their control.     

There are many legitimate issues with this game which lose credibility when bad players see good players complaining about them (Subs, CVs) and use them as cop outs to avoid actually improving themselves. I think this game's playerbase has the biggest victim complex out of any PvP game that I've played. The amount of people who unironically think WG rigs matchmaking is frightening. 

Ong my NAsian legend, keep preaching.

[Unlooky]

Just now, BOBTHEBALL said:

Ong my NAsian legend, keep preaching.

🙏🙏

[Ensign Cthulhu]

19 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

Nobody plays a perfect game unless you're John_The_Ruthless farming Colbert PR.

😈 I think I might have seen a replay of that. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was awesome.

He's on my list of people I hope not to see on the red team on those occasions I play PVP. (OK, actually I'd like to see just what it's like to go up against him 1:1, if only to put a stopwatch on the swiftness of my death and take notes on exactly how he trashes me.)

I agree with your post. 

 

[Unlooky]

Just now, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I agree with your post. 

Thanks!

Just now, Ensign Cthulhu said:

😈 I think I might have seen a replay of that. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was awesome.

He's on my list of people I hope not to see on the red team on those occasions I play PVP. (OK, actually I'd like to see just what it's like to go up against him 1:1, if only to put a stopwatch on the swiftness of my death and take notes on exactly how he trashes me.)

 

I actually have had played against him a few times (even got killed by him once on stream.) It's genuinely impressive what he is capable of, and the consistency to which he does it. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Okay, I confess as a bad player this makes me feel uncomfortable. I am aware of my shortcomings when it comes to WoWS, but I am also aware of WG's shortcomings when it comes to game development. I don't just mean the things, directions etc. that I and probably a few others think is where WG has gone wrong, but also the shortcomings in terms of how WG has carried out the implementations and in the way WG has chosen to develop this game.

That actually puts me at a double disadvantage compared to the better-than-average players that I might be playing against (though there should be those on my own team as well).

[Ensign Cthulhu]

6 minutes ago, Unlooky said:

It's genuinely impressive what he is capable of, and the consistency to which he does it. 

Oh man, if I were consistent across my ships, my Random stats would be SO much better.

[BOBTHEBALL]

20 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

😈 I think I might have seen a replay of that. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was awesome.

He's on my list of people I hope not to see on the red team on those occasions I play PVP. (OK, actually I'd like to see just what it's like to go up against him 1:1, if only to put a stopwatch on the swiftness of my death and take notes on exactly how he trashes me.)

I agree with your post. 

 

I'm happy we don't have anyone like him on Asia, he's like the one player I'm actually afraid of. 

[BOBTHEBALL]

23 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Okay, I confess as a bad player this makes me feel uncomfortable. I am aware of my shortcomings when it comes to WoWS, but I am also aware of WG's shortcomings when it comes to game development. I don't just mean the things, directions etc. that I and probably a few others think is where WG has gone wrong, but also the shortcomings in terms of how WG has carried out the implementations and in the way WG has chosen to develop this game.

That actually puts me at a double disadvantage compared to the better-than-average players that I might be playing against (though there should be those on my own team as well).

Don't worry, we don't have anything against the "bad" players. We're here to help, anyone can ask. I mean anyone.

[HogHammer]

I've had a few battles with John_The_Ruthless.  Yes, he's good - very good.  If you want to see him in action, visit his Twitch channel at https://www.twitch.tv/john_the_ruthless . He is a student in Canada working on a Master's Program, so his schedule is not consistent, but he does post recent broadcasts.  He's well worth seeing live or checking out recently recorded streams.  How he works various maps to his advantage is a work of art.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Oh look, ANOTHER thread attempting to quash any criticism of the game by claiming 'bad' players should just be muzzled...

FYI, your in game stats do not give you the authority to demand other people stop talking.

[BOBTHEBALL]

16 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Oh look, ANOTHER thread attempting to quash any criticism of the game by claiming 'bad' players should just be muzzled...

FYI, your in game stats do not give you the authority to demand other people stop talking.

There's nothing here saying you can't criticize the game. We're not saying you shouldn't criticize the game. However that's when the game need to be criticized. It's very common, I see it so much that people blame the game for everything and everything. Also it just happens to coincide with the fact that it's the bad players doing it. Like you know about this, you see it happen and well you can easily go and say to yourself "I bet he's not very good" and 99% of the time it's true lmao. You don't need to feel hurt because obviously this hits close to home but it's ok. We're all here to learn and improve together are we not? Blaming the game will only get you so far and it's time to stop blaming the game when it's not the games fault. 

To be quite honest it's shrimple really, some would say an issue in krill but no. I don't think so, I think it's either a mere misunderstanding by some and by others they shrimply do it on purpose to get a kick out of it.

 

[HogHammer]

@Unlooky post does not demand people (players) to stop talking or that they should be muzzled.  

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

I'm not here to claim WoWs is a remotely balanced game (a laughable statement) but the constant bellyaching and whining in game chat or in online spaces is extremely old. 

He is just stating his opinion, which is not painting the game as perfect but as a game that does indeed have faults.  Those faults are outside a player's control.

1 hour ago, Unlooky said:

There are most certainly issues that impact the experience in game, but the overall game experience CAN ABSOLUTELY be better for anyone if they were to try to avoid blaming things outside of their control. 

I believe the point he is trying to make is that individual players need to navigate around these faults and focus more on self-improvement in the game setting.

[Sorry_Yodo_Only]

flamu watchers been real quiet since it dropped

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 hours ago, Unlooky said:

Players need to take accountability over what they can control.

WG needs to take accountability over what it controls if they want to make this argument.

If you want to claim that players shouldn't complain about how the MM or RNG works...than WG should not be complaining about things like seal clubbing and farming.

I'm very tired of the toxic discord tropes being used to try to shut down discussion of the game.

Criticism is NOT A BAD THING.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 hours ago, Unlooky said:

The amount of people who unironically think WG rigs matchmaking is frightening. 

Considering the fact that rigged matchmaking is standard behavior for companies in the free2play business model...and WG patents describe ways to do it...

I'm unhappy with the continued idea that WG wouldn't possibly do it...or that rigged MM is somehow bad. It's not.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Unlooky said:

WoWs players need to drop the victim mentality

---

By Unlooky

Of all the player types I have encounter on WoWs, by far the largest and most obnoxious both in game and online (yes, including here) are the subpar players who are determined that everything is the fault of WG and RNG, Rigged matchmaking, unbalanced ships, bad teammates, or P2W make them unable to play the game at an adequate level. I'm not here to claim WoWs is a remotely balanced game (a laughable statement) but the constant bellyaching and whining in game chat or in online spaces is extremely old. 

Players need to take accountability over what they can control. Being double uptiered isn't an excuse to be dead within the first 4 minutes of a match. A premium ship does not automatically grant the owner the positioning, gamesense, and aim to bring out it's full potential. Even if they did, what are you going to do about it? You don't have any control over what other players spend with their money, and you can't stop yourself from being uptiered. How does whining about these occurrences help anyone? WG sure as hell isn't going to change the game or their monetization scheme just because someone made a rage post on reddit. 

It's far more productive to focus on one you could have done specifically. Nobody plays a perfect game unless you're John_The_Ruthless farming Colbert PR. I'll watch my own replays from time to time and notice glaring mistakes that I made in hindsight. Finding these mistakes and correcting them is much more productive and useful than making another venting thread. In my experience with the WoWs community primarily through Discord, Reddit, and now here, there is a disposition towards crying about the game in lieu of player skill. There are most certainly issues that impact the experience in game, but the overall game experience CAN ABSOLUTELY be better for anyone if they were to try to avoid blaming things outside of their control.     

There are many legitimate issues with this game which lose credibility when bad players see good players complaining about them (Subs, CVs) and use them as cop outs to avoid actually improving themselves. I think this game's playerbase has the biggest victim complex out of any PvP game that I've played. The amount of people who unironically think WG rigs matchmaking is frightening. 

I like the overall sentiment and tone of the post.
 

Quote

There are many legitimate issues with this game which lose credibility when bad players see good players complaining about them (Subs, CVs) and use them as cop outs to avoid actually improving themselves.

This ^^^^ is the sentence I'm not sure about.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding or misinterpreting it?

[BOBTHEBALL]

11 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

WG needs to take accountability over what it controls if they want to make this argument.

If you want to claim that players shouldn't complain about how the MM or RNG works...than WG should not be complaining about things like seal clubbing and farming.

I'm very tired of the toxic discord tropes being used to try to shut down discussion of the game.

Criticism is NOT A BAD THING.

Yeah WG should take accountability, when they do something wrong. Not because someone had an extra bad experience in a match with something. 

MM and RNG, well everyone suffers from this so it's a common thing to see. We all have the bad RNG or are bottom tier in MM. At the same time however we also all have times where MM and RNG favors us.

It's quite common that we don't think about that and only focus on the bad. I mean when you're bottom tier in a match you get a xp bonus while shooting higher tier ships, there's nothing like that for higher tiers shooting lower. So there are some good trade-offs that don't make it as bad when you actually think about it.

When it comes to the RNG I mean some people seem to suffer from "bad" RNG more than others. This isn't usually the RNG but the player themselves making mistakes that allow them to get used and abused easier. A good player will be able to mitigate RNG easier than a bad one, through the use of positioning, map awareness, ammo choice, target prioritization or anything else. It's just common sense in my mind at least.

What toxic discord tropes? I don't see anything toxic around here, just some misinformed players complaining about some pretty easy to understand things. They seem to not get it in their head which is quite unfortunate.
 

[BOBTHEBALL]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

This ^^^^ is the sentence I'm not sure about.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding or misinterpreting it?

What he is saying is that bad players that we have observed. Instead of them actually learning the game and understanding gameplay features. They lay ALL the blame on how CVs and SS are unbalanced for the game and whatnot. They use them as an excuse to stay really bad instead of actually trying to improve. 

I hope that helps?

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

What he is saying is that bad players that we have observed. Instead of them actually learning the game and understanding gameplay features. They lay ALL the blame on how CVs and SS are unbalanced for the game and whatnot. They use them as an excuse to stay really bad instead of actually trying to improve. 

I hope that helps?

Yep, that helps.

[Aragathor]

Maybe instead of blaming the victims, we take a real hard look at what WG is actually doing and where the people blaming them come from?

Because if you take a long hard look at WG and associated acts, they are doing a piss poor job of educating new players. The bad players intrinsically don't want to be bad, but what are they being offered to improve or learn?

In the game a new player gets one introductory battle that tells them the bare minimum. A true throwaway event. Then they have to figure it out on their own. There are some links to very basic YT vids explaining some mechanics, but they are hidden and badly marked. There is a training mode, but which offers no training scenarios, no training information, just a map and maybe bots to "train" on. Neither the wiki nor the discord offer good materials, and people asking for help are being treated abrasively by WG supporters.

What WG is doing to new players, equals a gym owner putting a new guy in front of a squating rack, that has only a 3 panel picture instruction, and wondering why they are getting a blown out back.

And it shouldn't be on the new players shoulders to search the web for guides and advice, when the gaming company is too lazy to do anything.

 

Quote

Rigged matchmaking, unbalanced ships, bad teammates, or P2W

All four points are valid points of criticism, points WG is ignoring. It doesn't matter if that comes from unicums or bad players.

The game has massive MM issues, ships that are OP and/or P2W, players left to rot on the vine because WG doesn't bother to provide any improvement materials.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Aragathor

[BOBTHEBALL]

4 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

The game has massive MM issues, ships that are OP and/or P2W, players left to rot on the vine because WG doesn't bother to provide any improvement helps.

Genuine question, please name me the P2W ships and "massive" issues with MM. I'd love to become informed.

[Jakob Knight]

* opens the doors on his vendors stall and smiles *

 

"I have a good supply of crutches and blame certifications for anyone who needs them!  Just in, time-proven and easy to use!  Their former owners don't need them anymore, and they can be yours!  Step right up, my good gentlemen and ladies!  Don't delay, or they might be gone before you know it!"

 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

41 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Yeah WG should take accountability, when they do something wrong.

Also when they do something right. The MM manipulation has been very successful at building the game.

It's time to own it.

42 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

What toxic discord tropes?

There are a couple of stock 'answers' given on discord to try to prevent discussion. One of these is the idea that criticism isn't valid because the player isn't good at the game.

Feedback is feedback, IMO. Plus, see below...

9 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Because if you take a long hard look at WG and associated acts, they are doing a piss poor job of educating new players. The bad players intrinsically don't want to be bad, but what are they being offered to improve or learn?

Exactly. Bad players are WGs responsibility...but instead of teaching, the standard response by even WG staff is to tell them to shut up and sit down.

Toxic avoidance of responsibility.

WG has done very little to educate the players...and, in fact, seems to want to keep players in the dark.

6 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Genuine question, please name me the P2W ships and "massive" issues with MM. I'd love to become informed.

Any ship that is no longer sold because it is overperforming..but is sold in Santa crates or auctions.