My big fat Greek destroyer line in progress

[kriegerfaust]

----------Salamis (A-B Class in game Acasta)
Displacement    
1,350–1,360 long tons (1,370–1,380 t) (standard)
1,778–1,790 long tons (1,807–1,819 t) (deep load)
Length    323 ft (98 m) (o/a)
Beam    32 ft 3 in (9.83 m)
Draught    12 ft 3 in (3.73 m)
Installed power    
3 × Admiralty 3-drum boilers
34,000 shp (25,000 kW)
Propulsion    2 × shafts; 2 × geared steam turbines
Speed    35 knots (65 km/h; 40 mph)
Range    4,800 nmi (8,900 km; 5,500 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph)
Complement    138
Armament    
4 × single 4.7 in (120 mm) guns
2 × single 2 pdr (40 mm (1.6 in)) AA guns
2 × quadruple 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
---------Navarinon (E-F Class)
Displacement    
1,405 long tons (1,428 t) (standard)
1,940 long tons (1,970 t) (deep load)
Length    329 ft (100.3 m) (o/a)
Beam    33 ft 3 in (10.13 m)
Draught    12 ft 6 in (3.81 m) (deep)
Installed power    
3 × Admiralty 3-drum boilers
36,000 shp (27,000 kW)
Propulsion    2 × shafts; 2 × geared steam turbines
Speed    35.5 knots (65.7 km/h; 40.9 mph)
Range    6,350 nmi (11,760 km; 7,310 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph)
Complement    145
Sensors and
processing systems    ASDIC
Armament    
4 × single 4.7 in (120 mm) guns
2 × quadruple 0.5 in (12.7 mm) machine guns
2 × quadruple 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
1 × depth charge rack, 2 × throwers and 20 × depth charges
General characteristics (flotilla leaders, where different)
Displacement    
1,475–1,495 long tons (1,499–1,519 t) (standard)
2,010–2,050 long tons (2,040–2,080 t) (deep load)
Length    343 ft (104.5 m) (o/a)
Beam    33 ft 9 in (10.29 m)
Installed power    38,000 shp (28,000 kW)
Speed    36 kn (67 km/h; 41 mph)
Complement    175
Armament    5 × single 4.7 in guns
----------Pindos/RHS Themistocles  (Hunt Class 1-2)
The Hunts were modelled on the 1938 escort sloop Bittern, a 262-foot (80 m) ship of 1,190 tons with 3,300 shp (2,500 kW) on geared turbines for 18.75 kn (34.73 km/h; 21.58 mph) and an armament of three twin Mark XIX mounts for the QF 4-inch (102 mm) gun Mark XVI. The guns were controlled by a Fuze Keeping Clock AA fire control computer when engaging aircraft. The Hunt class was to ship the same armament, plus a quadruple QF 2-pounder mount Mark VII on a hull of the same length but with 8 feet (2 m) less beam and installed power raised to 19,000 shp (14,000 kW) to give 27 knots (50 km/h).
----------Hydra (Kountouriotis class)
Class and type    Kountouriotis-class destroyer
Displacement    
Full load 2,050 tons
Standard 1,389 tons
Length    92 m (302 ft)
Beam    9.5 m (31 ft)
Draft    3.65 m (12.0 ft)
Propulsion    Boilers: 3, Engines: 2 shaft Parsons type geared turbines, Power: 44,000 hp
Speed    38 knots (70 km/h; 44 mph) maximum
Complement    156
Armament    
4 × 4.7 in (120 mm) (4 × 1)
3 × 40 mm/39 pom-pom A/A guns (3 × 1)
4 × 13.2 mm MG
6 × 21 in T/T
54 mines
---------Leon (Wild beadt Class)
Type    Destroyer
Displacement    
980 long tons (1,000 t) (standard)
1,175 long tons (1,194 t) (full load)
Length    
89.3 m (293 ft 0 in) oa
86.9 m (285 ft 1 in) wl
Beam    8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
Draught    2.6 m (8 ft 6 in)
Installed power    5 × coal-fired White-Forster boilers
Propulsion    2 × Parsons geared turbines; 2 shafts; 22,000 shp (16,405 kW)
Speed    32 knots (59 km/h)
Complement    90
Armament    
4 × single 4 in (102 mm)/50 guns
4 × single 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
----------Kanaris (Type 3 Hunt Class)
Class and type    Type III Hunt-class destroyer
Displacement    
Full load 1,490 tons
Standard 1,050 tons
Length    85.3 m (280 ft)
Beam    11.4 m (37 ft)
Draft    2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
Propulsion    Boilers: 2 Admiralty 3 drum boilers, Engines: 2 shaft Parsons turbine, Shafts: 2 (twin screw ship), Power: 19,000 shp, (14.2 MW)
Speed    
26-knot (48 km/h) maximum
20-knot (37 km/h) maximum operational
Range    2,350 nautical miles (4,350 km) at 20.0 knots (37 km/h)
Complement    170
Armament    4 × 4-inch (102 mm) (2 × 2) guns, one 4 × 40 mm A/A QF 2-pounder "pom-pom" gun, 3 × 20 mm A/A, 2 × 21-inch (533 mm) T/T, one depth charge track
----------Vasilefs Georgios (G-H Class)
Displacement    
1,340–1,350 long tons (1,360–1,370 t) (standard)
1,854–1,860 long tons (1,884–1,890 t) (deep load)
Length    323 ft (98.5 m) (o/a)
Beam    33 ft (10.1 m)
Draught    12 ft 6 in (3.8 m)
Installed power    
3 Admiralty 3-drum boilers
34,000 shp (25,000 kW)
Propulsion    2 shafts; 2 geared steam turbines
Speed    35.5 knots (65.7 km/h; 40.9 mph)
Range    5,530 nmi (10,240 km; 6,360 mi) at 15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph)
Complement    137 (peacetime), 146 (wartime)
Sensors and
processing systems    ASDIC
Armament    
4 × single 4.7 in (120 mm) guns
2 × quadruple 0.5 in (12.7 mm) AA machine guns
2 × quadruple 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes
1 × depth charge rack, 2 × throwers, 20 × depth charges
----------Panormos (Fiume Class)
Displacement    243 tons standard
Length    57.76 m (189.5 ft)
Beam    5.8 m (19 ft)
Draft    1.5 m (4.9 ft)
Propulsion    
2 Yarrow water-tube boilers
2 AEG-Curtis steam turbines
2 shafts
5,000 / 6,000 shp
Speed    31 knots (57 km/h) maximum (32 knots (59 km/h) after 1925)
Complement    41
Armament    
2 × Skoda 66 mm (2.6 in) / 30-cal guns
1 × 8 mm anti-aircraft machine gun added in 1914
4 × 450 mm torpedo tubes (2 × 2)

[Paladin1954]

I don't know what the devs are smoking but it's sure affecting their reasoning. 8 years in and still no Commonwealth tech trees. There was a lot more Commonwealth ships then Greek. It's almost like WeeGee treats anything Commonwealth like a red headed step child.

[CFagan_1987]

4 hours ago, Paladin1954 said:

I don't know what the devs are smoking but it's sure affecting their reasoning. 8 years in and still no Commonwealth tech trees. There was a lot more Commonwealth ships then Greek. It's almost like WeeGee treats anything Commonwealth like a red headed step child.

I'm of the opinion that the Commonwealth tech tree should be folded into the British tech tree with players given the option of flying the present day Canadian, Australian, or New Zealand naval ensigns.

[invicta2012]

Panormos was a new one on me, but she's small - 250 tons - probably too small to be fun to play.

Kanaris would make a decent Tier I - 2 x 2 4 inch guns and twin torps, a Black Swan type - but anachronistic at Tiers II and III amongst all those WW1 designs.

Tier II is already in the game, under her British name - Medea. 

Tier III is Leon - 4x4 inch guns, 2x2 torpedoes, 980 tons, 28kts speed is all good solid DD stuff, equivalent to the RN R-Class / Phua Ruang.

Hydra could be IV or V - quite similar to the Italian Maestrale.

Salamis works fine at V,

Vasilefs Georgios at VI (G Class Hull with KM weapons.

Tier VII is a bit of a gap, but there were two follow-ons from Vasilefs Georgios under construction (Vasilefs Konstantinos and Vasilissa Sophia) which could be given a KM type completion fit-out. 

After that there are lots of US types - no-torp Bensons (Doxa) or perhaps a USS Kidd analogue in Kimon for Tier VIII ; but perhaps the interesting angle for high tiers is with a pair of helicopter equipped DDs for Tier IX (Kountouriotis), and Tier X Miaoulis (Allen M Sumner class) both with ASW torpedoes (no surface ones) and a heli for spotting / long range fire). 

 

 

 

[kriegerfaust]

Thanks Invicta you have encouraged me to fill in the missing hole in my line, will now go looking for more ships perhaps some Grece could have bought or received as aid for other countries, or even seized.

[kriegerfaust]

a few more brits to help out

Faulknor-class flotilla leader (BR3)
Operators    
 Royal Navy
 Chilean Navy
Preceded by    Medea class
Succeeded by    Marksman class
Completed    4
Lost    1
General characteristics
Type    Faulknor-class destroyer leader
Displacement    1,700 tons
Length    331 ft (101 m) o/a
Beam    32 ft 6 in (9.91 m)
Draught    11 ft (3.4 m)
Propulsion    6× White-Forster boilers, steam turbines, 3 shafts, 30,000 shp
Speed    32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)
Range    403 tons coal, 83 tons oil
Complement    197 - 205
Armament    
As built:
6 × QF 4-inch (101.6 mm) Mk VI guns, single mounting P Mk. XI
2 × twin tubes for 21 inch (533 mm) torpedoes (4 × single in Botha)
OR IF TOO STRONG FOR 3
Marksman-class flotilla leader
Type    Destroyer leader
Displacement    1,600 long tons (1,626 t)
Length    324 ft (98.8 m)
Beam    31 ft 9 in (9.68 m)
Draught    12 ft (3.7 m)
Propulsion    
Yarrow type boilers (White-Forster in Lightfoot)
Parsons steam turbines (Brown-Curtis in Marksman, Nimrod)
3 shafts
36,000 shp
Speed    34 knots (39.1 mph; 63.0 km/h)-34.25 knots (39.4 mph; 63.4 km/h)[1]
Range    510 tons oil, ?
Complement    106–116
Armament    
4 × QF 4-inch (101.6 mm) Mark IV guns, single mounting P Mk. XI
2 × single 2-pounder (40-mm) "pom-pom" Mk. II, single mounting HA Mk. II
2 × twin 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
C-class destroyer (1943)
Type    Destroyer
Displacement    
1,710 long tons (1,740 t) standard
2,530 long tons (2,570 t) full load
Length    
362 ft 9 in (110.57 m) o/a
339 ft 6 in (103.48 m) pp
Beam    35 ft 9 in (10.90 m)
Draught    10 ft (3.05 m)
Propulsion    
2 Admiralty 3-drum boilers,
Parsons single-reduction geared steam turbines,
40,000 shp (30 MW), 2 shafts
Speed    
36 kn (67 km/h; 41 mph)
32 kn (59 km/h; 37 mph) (full load)
Range    
4,675 nautical miles (8,658 km; 5,380 mi) at 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph)
1,400 nautical miles (2,600 km; 1,600 mi) at 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)
Complement    186 (222 as leader)
Armament    
4 × QF 4.5-inch (113 mm) L/45 Mk IV guns on mounts CP Mk.V
2 × Bofors 40 mm L/60 guns on twin mount "Hazemeyer" Mk.IV;
4 × Single QF 2-pounder (40 mm) Mk.XVI guns
8 (2 × 4) tubes for 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes Mk.IX
Wallsend/Swan Hunter design
3x2 120mm, 2x1 40mm Port and Starboard on the searchlight platform.
2x3 torpedoes
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/203/203454-c4b48c88f65a1f16a0b941bafab9d894.jpg
Admirallity Class
Operators    
 Royal Australian Navy
 Royal Navy
Preceded by    Thornycroft type leader
Succeeded by    A- and B class leaders
Planned    10
Completed    8
Cancelled    2
Lost    1
General characteristics
Type    Flotilla leader
Displacement    
1,580 tons standard
2,053 tons full load
Length    322 ft 6 in (98.30 m) o/a
Beam    31 ft 9 in (9.68 m)
Draught    12 ft 6 in (3.81 m)
Propulsion    4 Yarrow-type boilers, Parsons single reduction turbines, 2 shafts, 40,000 shp (30,000 kW)
Speed    36.5 knots (67.6 km/h)
Range    5,000 nmi (9,260 km) at 15 knots (28 km/h)
Complement    164
Armament    
5 × BL 4.7-inch (120 mm) Mark I guns
(3 replaced by twin QF 6-pounder (57 mm) 10 cwt mountings in WWII)
1 × QF 3-inch (76 mm) 20 cwt anti-aircraft gun
2 × triple tubes for 21-inch (533 mm) torpedoes
 

Edited October 25, 2023 by kriegerfaust

[kriegerfaust]

Some minor USA ship variation's and one weird escort conversion to bombardment ship

Title: "Scheme "A" - Destroyer Study"
Description: Photo #: S-511-39 Scheme A - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board during consideration of updated versions of the Benson (DD-421) and Gleaves (DD-423) classes for further production during World War II. This plan, dated July 1941, provides a pair of twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns, while retaining two banks of five 21-inch torpedo tubes. Standard displacement of the ship is 1810 tons, an increase of some 190 tons over the original DD-421 class. Scale of the original drawings is 1/16 = 1'. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Title: "Scheme "A-I" - Destroyer Study"
Description: Photo #: S-511-40 Scheme A-I - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board during consideration of updated versions of the Benson (DD-421) and Gleaves (DD-423) classes for further production during World War II. This plan, dated July 1941, provides a pair of twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns in an arrangement intended to reduce crowding, with somewhat increased space between the after 5/38 gun mounts. Searchlights are also located separately, one on each smokestack. Only one bank of five 21-inch torpedo tubes is fitted, but a pair of single 20mm guns is installed to provide close-in anti-aircraft fire forward. Standard displacement of the ship is 1795 tons, an increase of some 175 tons over the original DD-421 class. Scale of the original drawings is 1/16 = 1'. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Title: "Scheme "B-I" - Destroyer Study"
Description: Photo #: S-511-51-F Scheme B-I - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board as part of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 30 September 1941 plan, for a 2135-ton (standard displacement) ship, provides a slightly updated Fletcher (DD-445) class destroyer, retaining its five single 5/38 gun mounts (two of which are semi-open mounts) but eliminating one bank of five torpedo tubes to achieve a less crowding amidships. Other notable changes are a modified bridge arrangement and two twin 40mm anti-aircraft gun mounts (in place of the single quad 1.1 weapon of the original Fletchers). The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Title: "Scheme "B-II" - Destroyer Study"
Description: Photo #: S-511-51-E Scheme B-II - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board as part of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 30 September 1941 plan, for a 2200-ton (standard displacement) ship, introduces the twin 5/38 dual-purpose gun mount as a destroyer weapon. Three of these are provided, as well as two twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns and a single bank of five torpedo tubes, giving a less crowded arrangement amidships. Further developed as Scheme B-VII of 10 March 1942, this became the basic DD-692 design. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Title: "300' DE Class Conversion to Bombardment Ship or Anti-Aircraft Ship"
Description: Photo #: S-511-62 300' DE Class Conversion to Bombardment Ship or Anti-Aircraft Ship Preliminary design plan prepared during consideration of different roles for steam-powered escort ships (DE), of which more ships were being constructed than necessary to meet current anti-submarine escort requirements. This plan, dated 7 September 1943 with an additional note of 25 October 1943, depicts two different configurations: A Bombardment Ship with five 5/25 low-angle guns (submarine type) and a pair of 40mm twin anti-aircraft gun mounts; and an Anti-Aircraft Ship with three 5/38 guns and three 40mm twin anti-aircraft gun mounts. Though an improved version of the latter was approved for both roles, no ships were completed or converted for these purposes. Scale of the original drawings is 1/16 = 1'. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

======================================================================================

 

======================================================================================

Title: "Scheme "B-III" - Destroyer Study"

Description: Photo #: S-511-51-D Scheme B-III - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board as part of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 30 September 1941 plan, for a 2180-ton (standard displacement) ship, provides two twin 5/38 dual-purpose gun mounts (one forward and one atop the after deck house), four twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns, and two triple torpedo tube mountings. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Catalog #: S-511-51-D

 

Title: "Scheme "B-IV" - Destroyer Study"

Description: Photo #: S-511-51-C Scheme B-IV - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board as part of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 30 September 1941 plan, for a 2195-ton (standard displacement) ship, provides two twin 5/38 dual-purpose gun mounts forward, four twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns on the corners of a large after deckhouse, and two triple torpedo tube mountings. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Catalog #: S-511-51-C

Title: "Scheme "B-V" - Destroyer Study"

Description: Photo #: S-511-51-B Scheme B-V - Destroyer Study Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board as part of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 30 September 1941 plan, for a 2215-ton (standard displacement) ship, provides two twin 5/38 dual-purpose gun mounts forward and a single 5/38 dual-purpose gun mount aft, four twin 40mm anti-aircraft guns on the after deckhouse, and two triple torpedo tube mountings. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Catalog #: S-511-51-B

Title: "Scheme "B-VII" - Destroyer Study (DD 692)"

Description: Photo #: S-511-51 Scheme B-VII - Destroyer Study (DD 692) Preliminary design plan prepared for the General Board near the end of the process leading to the Allen M. Sumner (DD-692) class design. This 10 March 1942 plan, for a 2270-ton (standard displacement) ship, is a development of Scheme B-II of 30 September 1941, and was the basis for the DD-692 class design. It provides three twin 5/38 dual-purpose gun mounts (two forward, one aft), two twin 40mm anti-aircraft gun mounts, and ten torpedo tubes in two banks of five. Note that the bridge arrangement has been altered from the earlier schemes in the Scheme Bseries. The original plan is in the 1939-1944 Spring Styles Book held by the Naval History and Heritage Command. U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command Photograph.

Edited October 25, 2023 by kriegerfaust
More goodness

[Sorry_Yodo_Only]

As far as line gimmick go, I have always been thinking that it is missed opportunity that there is no alternate gunboat focused line for USN, especially with the interesting fact that MBRB for the USN 127mm would be a historically accurate feature due to the ability to load shells lined on turret walls instead of shell hoists temporarily, which boosted fire rate for short periods (https://eugeneleeslover.com/ENGINEERING/Naval_Ordnance_And_Gunnery/Naval_Ordnance_V1_Part1.pdf  Page 160).

It could be an interesting for a USN DD based line to have a harder focus on gun with poor ballistic but decent DPM, a trend of weaker short range torp like the lower tier USN DD that cut off at Mahan, and trademark USN smoke with perhaps something like RN hydro and possibly be the first DD line in the game to mount ASW airstrike, to make it more effective at ASW role and distinguish it from Gdansk line. 

[invicta2012]

3 hours ago, Sorry_Yodo_Only said:

As far as line gimmick go, I have always been thinking that it is missed opportunity that there is no alternate gunboat focused line for USN, especially with the interesting fact that MBRB for the USN 127mm would be a historically accurate feature due to the ability to load shells lined on turret walls instead of shell hoists temporarily, which boosted fire rate for short periods (https://eugeneleeslover.com/ENGINEERING/Naval_Ordnance_And_Gunnery/Naval_Ordnance_V1_Part1.pdf  Page 160).

That could be done - the Nicholas (in game) uses the 127/51 surface only DD gun (considered for use up to the Porter Class DD Leaders) whereas all following USN DDs use the 127/38. An alternative line could be spun out from Nicholas using that SP weapon, giving stronger gunboating performance (but increased vulnerability to aircraft).

Edited October 25, 2023 by invicta2012

[Project45_Opytny]

8 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

That could be done - base it off the USS Porter class (a very large DD Leader) which had a 4 x 2 127/50 armament, initially for use against surface targets only (although some of these guns were swapped out for 127/38s, the standard US DD DP gun, during WW2). That would provide a ship with better gunboating capabilities than at present, although obviously vulnerable to aircraft.

The Porter-class have always been armed in standard 127/38 guns, only the gunmount was initially a light weight but surface combat only model.

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

The Porter-class have always been armed in standard 127/38 guns, only the gunmount was initially a light weight but surface combat only model.

They have indeed (You'll see I've edited the original!). But the Nicholas does have those guns in the game, so a line could be spun off from that with the heavier guns and more surface gun power.